Line of sight.

[BaronDG]

So... elevation. 

 

Hopefully, I can attatch a picture of the situation. 

 

The ronin are up on a 2” ledge. They are more than 1” away from the edge so they can’t ignore it. 

 

Can they see the guilty below them? 

 

Can they see the dead outlaws standing in the ”shadow”? 

 

Montresor is looking at the ronin from below. He is height 3, so he should ignore a height 2 obstacle, right? 

 

Perhaps this is clear to everybody else and me and my mates are just really dumb... 

[BaronDG]

[solkan]

Edit:  I'm assuming that the models on the far right on top are the Ronin.  The two models in the middle are the Dead Outlaws, and everybody else is just "everybody else".  Because I can't tell Dead Outlaws and Guilty apart at that angle.   So I'm editing my post to just say "Group Middle" for them.

It's a 2" ledge, so that translates to being a Ht2 scenery items.  That means that casts a 2" shadow that will cover models that are Ht2 or less.

"Group Middle" appear to be within 2" of the wall, and because they're Sz2 or less they're in the shadow.  (If "Group Middle" were Sz3, either because their cards were different or they were standing on Ht1 terrain, then they'd be out of that shadow).  Because of the shadow, the Ht2 obstacle can't be ignored when drawing line of sight between "Group Middle" and Ronin, so they cannot see each other.  The shadow rule supersedes the terrain with other rules.)

Everyone else is well outside of the shadow area, so the shadow rules don't matter at all to them.  For the people on the ground drawing line of sight to the Ronin on top, keep in mind that the Ronin are effectively Sz 4 (They're Sz2 standing on Ht2 terrain, it adds together), so everyone on the ground outside of the shadow zone can see them, and the Ronin can see everyone outside of the shadow zone.  Because they're effective height is greater than the Ht of the obstacle they're standing on.

(Montessor being Sz3 doesn't make a difference in this situation because he's drawing line of sight to the effective Sz4 Ronin.  Even a Sz1 or Sz2 model outside of that middle area can see the Ronin standing on top.)

 

[BaronDG]

Thanks, Solkan, most appreciated. Does anyone outside of the shadow have any cover? 

[Adran]

You need to be in the shadow and have the lines drawn through the terrain for you to gain cover.

Page 36 of the latest beta rules has a Wheres Waldo box on Cover, that's quite handy, but as a really short summary, you need to be close to something for it to have any chance of it giving you cover

[solkan]

How it works is...

If you’re standing in shadow, line of sight lines across whatever’s generating that shadow will block line of sight.  If they only block some line of sight to the model, that’s cover.

It’s like the diagram on page 19 of the rules illustrates—the shadow zone is basically an area of influence for the terrain.  If you draw line of sight to a short model (partially or completely) inside the shadow zone, and lines of sight across the terrain piece are blocked.

It might make more sense to work it out as results:

If there’s Blocking terrain between you and another model, it’s at least as tall as you are, and you’re within it’s height (or 3”, whichever is less), that Blocking terrain is in the way regardless of elevation.

If it’s only partially in the way (because you’re sticking out past a corner of a wall) that’s cover.  

[BaronDG]

Does this mean that there is a reversed shadow 2” in on the ronins Ledge? Do they get cover from shooters below? 

[solkan]

3 hours ago, BaronDG said:

Does this mean that there is a reversed shadow 2” in on the ronins Ledge? Do they get cover from shooters below? 

I'm not sure what you mean by a reverse shadow.  The way the shadow rules are written, they only extend down from terrain, and if you're taller (effectively because you're standing on terrain, or naturally due to your Sz attribute) than the terrain generating the shadow you're not considered to be in the shadow.  Those Ronin, because they're standing on top of that terrace that's casting the shadow are taller (effectively) than all of the shadow zones generated by that terrace.

Here's a terrible drawing of the situation:

  A and B have line of sight to each other.  The pink shadow zone doesn't affect them at all because they're not in it.  B is effectively Sz4 (Sz 2+Ht2) because it's standing on the terrain, so the lines of sight are allowed to cross the Ht2 terrain without being blocked.

A has line of sight to C standing in the shadow zone because none of the line of sight lines cross the thing creating the pink shadow.

B doesn't have line of sight to C because the lines of sight cross the thing creating the pink shadow.  The shadow zone rules veto drawing line of sight across the terrain generating the shadow to something in that shadow.

And nobody (A, B or C) gets cover because none of these cases just block some of the lines of sight between the models.

 

 

[BaronDG]

Cheers, i actually think i’ve got it now!