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Raging_Iggy

Scion/bandersnatch and scheme marker placing

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In our playing group there are different options about how work the following abilities:

- Mark of obliteration

- Shadow hunting

The question is: can Scion and Bandersnatch place a scheme marker while they are buried?

Imho, they can't because placing in base contact doesn't imply "misuring a range". Others however, think that they can.

Moreover, following the actual wording, they should be able to interact for "deliver a message", and perform all actions that imply a range. 

Can someone give a clarification on this?Should this receive a wording adjustment in the rulebook/cards?

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I'm just going to copy this over from the same thing being asked about Raspy before.

On 2/18/2019 at 10:09 AM, retnab said:
  • Ice Mirror: When taking non-y Actions, this model may draw LoS and range from Ice Pillar Markers within a8. Actions taken this way may not declare Triggers unless this model first discards a card.
  • Pg. 12: Two objects are said to be in base contact with each other if their bases are physically touching (edge to edge or overlapping). [also see the last example on the same page showing that being within 0" is not the same as base contact]
  • Interact: Cannot be declared while engaged or if this model took the Disengage Action this Activation. Do one of the following: 1) Place a Scheme Marker in base contact with this model and not within 4" of another friendly Scheme Marker, 2) remove all Scheme Markers in base contact with this model, or 3) resolve a specific rule that refers to an Interact Action. [Also note that all three Interact-oriented strats specify "base contact"]

Short answer: no.

  • Agree 3

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To repeat my argument.

Interact does not have a range. (Seriously - go and look at it as an action (page 25), there is no range listed. Its just like it doesn't have a target number or a stat or a resist)

It has an effect that specifies a location (Base contact for dropping a scheme marker). This is not the same thing

Abilities that allow you to draw range from somewhere else make no difference.

Deliver a message won't work.  you're not within 1" of the model. (Its like asking if the point is in range of a benifical aura do you gain its bonus'. ) There is still no range for you to draw from else where.

 

Range is a game stat. Anything that alters or applies to Range will alter or apply to that game stat and nothing else.

  • Agree 5

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16 hours ago, Adran said:

To repeat my argument.

Interact does not have a range. (Seriously - go and look at it as an action (page 25), there is no range listed. Its just like it doesn't have a target number or a stat or a resist)

It has an effect that specifies a location (Base contact for dropping a scheme marker). This is not the same thing

Abilities that allow you to draw range from somewhere else make no difference.

Deliver a message won't work.  you're not within 1" of the model. (Its like asking if the point is in range of a benifical aura do you gain its bonus'. ) There is still no range for you to draw from else where.

 

Range is a game stat. Anything that alters or applies to Range will alter or apply to that game stat and nothing else.

Ah, I suddenly understand your argument. range is not a stat. It is also not capitalized either, so it isn’t a specific term. The stat is Rg and if it were a reference to the stat, it would use Rg. “range” is a term brought up under measuring and is used define any distance measured for an effect.

I’m not saying it should be base to base, the Deliver a Message is another matter. I think range through other objects should be defined in the part about base to base.

  • Agree 1

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32 minutes ago, CrimsonWraith said:

Ah, I suddenly understand your argument. And it’s wrong. range is not a stat. It is also not capitalized either, so it isn’t a specific term. The stat is Rg and if it were a reference to the stat, it would use Rg. “range” is a term brought up under measuring and is used define any distance measured for an effect.

So what distance are you measuring for the effect "base to base", when the rules happen to demonstrate in two examples that it's not the same thing as being 0" apart?

There's a reason why Place has a statement:

Quote

If the Place effect has a range, measure from the closest point of the base in the desired direction to place the object (do not take into account vertical distance), and place it anywhere within that range.

Note that there are quite a number of game terms that aren't capitalized and are still specific terms.  Like "damage", "damage flip", "model", "discard", etc.

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Again, I am not arguing for base to base through other models/objects. My point is that it is something that should be made clearer. This thread has popped up in every forum a model can take an action through another model in closed and open beta. 

All measuring is done from the closest part of the base. You always use the base. The difference here is that you are using the base of a different model instead of the normal own models base. So if I use the second model’s base to measure range, why do I not use it for checking base to base?

To be honest, the best argument for being able to do it:

”Some people have read to the effect that they can. Others disagree. But, with all the discussion, Wyrd hasn’t tightened the wording or told us we can't. Maybe that’s because we can.”

But that’s rubbish. We all know Wyrd just loves reading me repeating myself. Seriously, I’m very eloquent.  🤣

 

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