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State of the game - open discussion :)

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So, now that the game has hit retail pretty much everywhere and the kickstarters had their chance to play it thoroughly the last weeks or even few months I would like to get a friendly discussion regarding overall impressions going :)

 

Interesting bits I would like to know from participants (feel free to copy that if you want :) ):

- what faction(s) are you playing?

- against?

- one or double commander?

- overall impression

- what do you like/dislike about your chosen faction? (Flavour, units, their overall perfomance, unclear rules which could've been written better, ....just a few of the top of my head)

- anything you are concerned about, ruleswise or anything else?

- looking forward to....?

 

To just name some suggestions^^

 

Would be very interested in the opinions of all you players out there and I think it would be nice to get a good chunk of them together in a single thread here :)

 

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I'll start with myself of course^^

- what faction(s) are you playing?

Kings Empire, starting to splash Abyssinia into it.

- against?

Abyssinia, Hordes most of the time, a few games against Cult atm, one Hordes player starts splashing Cult.

- one or double commander?

Started with single commander, but never again after playing double the first time.

- overall impression

 I like the out of the box playability and think that could be a great selling point in the future.

I really like the pressure on ressources that you (should) feel most of the time in the game.

No true line of sight makes me very happy xD

Overall it's a good game that can be made great by releasing balanced new stuff and errata some of the (imo) now problematic stuff, be it because it's to strong, useless, badly written or has old rules/misprints from the beta on it.

A document to clarify/streamline some wordings would be very much appreciated, as would be a few more pictured examples of situations that can occur during a game.

 

- what do you like/dislike about your chosen faction? (Flavour, units, their overall perfomance, unclear rules which could've been written better, ....just a few of the top of my head)

I really like to say "Royal Rifle Corps"^^

The stories are superb (I actually loved all of them)

Rapid Maneuvering needs to be spelled out better/clarified, the factions playstyle changes a lot wether you have to discard 3 cards to shoot after rushing or just 1.

RRC, Borderers, Grenadiers all seem good, Artillery on the other hand is imo the worst unit in the game right now.

Infiltrators are situational, as are the Field Intelligence Corps, both can win you games if used correctly.

Dragoons suffer from not having an asset/adjunct atm but I like them as a fast counter unit :)

Margaret Belle is one of the best schemers in the game, and can be brutal against enemy commanders.

Edmonton fell from Grace a little bit as I've found that I really need the card draw Kassa provides and thus have to cut one commander - Maggie helps with getting me all the markers, Edmonton gloried helps with closing the gap between me and my opponent, but you need to kill a fireteam to get him there, so that's likely turn 2 onwards.

 

I like our tech choices for every situation what I don't like is that we as the advertised "ranged faction" have problems with closing the gap and keeping our units save in the process.

Cult and Hordes have very interesting mechanics to teleport around the table disrupting our game and getting close without gwtting shot at, while Abyssinia has 4 Flare guns that completely outrange us, give us no oppurtunity to hide and force us to make the first charge.

Afterwards we are in range of their superior weaponry nd close combat units where they proceed to kill us and plink of our assault due to the fact that we got no card draw and they have plenty.

 Tl;Dr - KE still needs something in my opinion to make them completely work, they might have favourable match ups if there's elevated terrain on the table as that would help us to negate the omnipresent cover from the 25-30% terrain on the battlefield (as would even one half of an Abyssinian Engineers weapon do - 18" ignore cover and str3 pierce...) but as of know I'm hard pressed to not take Kassa as we need those cards to perform in our (I think) intended role - shooting stuff to get where we want.

- anything you are concerned about, ruleswise or anything else?

Besides my concerns for my own faction above there's a few thing that bug me in the overall game:

- the 3 point units.

Rhinos and Eels are stupidly good, especially the former.

They got interesting, thematic defense mechanics, which I'm fine with.

But why are their stats so high then?

Usually it's high stats or defensive mechanisms, maybe both on very expenisve units/commanders/Titans.

They have both, which, in combination with their good actions, makes them way too strong for their cost.

Eels are hard to kill, super fast, hard hitting with an auto 2 damage and can multiply, although that's the moment where both of them are more vulnerable for a short amount of time.

Rhinos are just a NPE with 2 strong defensive mechanisms on top of their high stats, an AoE attack where the opponent has no way of interfering with the damage coming through and the complete shutdown of Morale actions around them, the type of action needed to do most of the missions and 90% of the actions that attack on of their 3 defensive mechanisms...

They can be dealt with but imo it shouldn't take the whole army, a very specific plan and still some luck of one player to deal with one 3.5 scrip model (toughness) of the other.

They got nerfed a bit by the clarification on the Cults portals and prder movement but that doesn't change the massive oberperformance these models bring to the table.

Marauders are hands on the best "scheme runner" in the game, their ability to do any action after rushing is very strong.

KEs Artillery doesn't even come close to any of the above, in fact it's just not worth a single point atm, high strength and range but easily countered and needs way more cards than KE can provide to be even remotely effective - but even a 13 is not that valuable on a sh3 (and no, it's never sh5 with an inspired token because you can't ignore cover, are not mobile enough to get into a good position and can't even fire up close where you would've a chance of getting a good fire corridor.)

Str6 seems impressive but only if you can land a hit which this unit isn't capable of.

Let it ignore LoS when shooting at Titans, discard a card to ignore LoS and/or cover or give the artillery strike stratagem a bonus if an Artillery team is on the field.

Higher armour would help too.

Just a few ideas :)

 

Second part of autotakes atm are the two envoy champions - tactic tokens are way to valuable imo to not include one of the two in your respective Alliance if you're staying in your own faction commnder wise.

That can be fixed by giving us faction specific units with a tactics value although I would like the game to retain it's pressure on them as a ressource, so don't let too many of them join the same army please :)

The clarification on Markers/created terrain leads to a weird situation flr Abyssinias Electrocutioners at the moment as the only thk g they can "change history" (remove) on are now Mission objective markers and I think portal markers?

Feels weird to be able to remove the mission objective, shutting my opponent out of the game in certain situations but not being able to remove a tide pool.

- looking forward to....?

More games, more expansions, an extended FAQ and errata soon.

I like that game but think there're still some things to improve, hope that happens fast and that I'll enjoy it as much as I do Malifaux^^

 

 

That's quite some rambling now for one post, feel free to comment and discuss as much you like, but remember to keep it civil - I'm interested in hearing your opinions so far :)

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Might post a propper reply later, but just wanted to say that Accurate means you can't kill more than one model, not that you cannot do more than one damage. Also Margaret only gets accurate against Champions, so it should never be a negative for you.

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4 minutes ago, Razhem said:

Might post a propper reply later, but just wanted to say that Accurate means you can't kill more than one model, not that you cannot do more than one damage. Also Margaret only gets accurate against Champions, so it should never be a negative for you.

Ah, thank you very much, that's true and a slip up on my part.

Will edit the post above^^

Makes her even better :)

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what faction(s) are you playing?- hordes

- against? Mainly burning man

- one or double commander? I prefer double, some of my opponents prefer single

- overall impression- like it, burning man feels busted 

- what do you like/dislike about your chosen faction? (Flavour, units, their overall perfomance, unclear rules which could've been written better, ....just a few of the top of my head)- love the theme, hate the alpha crawler, would like to make purchases

- anything you are concerned about, ruleswise or anything else?- the malifaux open beta has killed it in our meta

- looking forward to....?- seeing if it comes back enough to justify purchases.

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Game is Fantastic 

I Main abyssinia and Gibbering hordes just bought cult of the burning man.

Against Kings empire

ONE or Two- this game is built for 2 commander play it's where it really shines. I like 1 commander but TOS is a Cadillac at 2 commander

Overall impression- Love the game love the system. Have done a podcast specific to the game for nearly a year. 

Like dislike- I like the asethic and the mechanics. I dont have much dislikes on it I have a few pain points around endless number but nothing that halts my enjoyment

Concern- nothing rules based simply getting people to see it.

Looking forward 2-more allegiances and more players

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Only thing I dislike about the game is the pre-assembled nature of the product. I strongly STRONGLY prefer to put my own models together. Removing mold lines from Hordes models has been do-able but an absolute nightmare on models like the Alpha Crawler (almost an inexcusable nightmare). Otherwise I like the product, just wish I could play more!

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I have all four factions and primarily play against Cult. I love the game as a whole but have some complaints about some specific models. Every Alpha Crawler I have seen is a sloppy mess as far as how its been built. Due to the soft nature of the minis and weight distribution, some models just sag over time and there is nothing that can be done about it. You can straighten them out with hot/cold water trick, but after awhile the weight and soft material are just going to make them face plant over and over. Worst offender on this front are the Alpha Crawler, both cav units, the Walker, and the Cutter.

Biggest complaint has to be on the advertisement and promotional front. Besides word of mouth from backers and some first party stuff from Wyrd (both of which are most likely to only be seen by those who are already Wyrd consumers), I have seen nothing. I have even heard that Beasts of War inquired about getting some boxes so they could go over the game on their channel, and Wyrd never got back with them. Wyrd really needs to hook up with some of the big 3rd party channels, word of mouth is only going to get them so far.

Also my lgs can't get any TOS stuff in. They have told me they have been attempting to contact Wyrd directly on the issue for well over a month and have heard nothing back.

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What faction(s) are you playing?

Abyssinia. I chose them because I've never played the "heavy armor / elite" force in any game before and like the atheistic quite a bit. I look forward to playing some Court of Two when they get fleshed out and some Cult of the Burning man, as well. 

What faction(s) are you playing against?

Cult of the Burning man is my most regular opponent. 

One or double commander?

Most of my games are two commander but I just did a 1 Commander spree to help prepare for a recent tournament. 

Overall impression

The game is super fun! There is some word clean-up and standardization needed here and there but I enjoy it a lot. 

What do you like/dislike about your chosen faction?

Engineer sculpt isn't great. 

Anything you are concerned about, ruleswise or anything else?

Abys card draw is a tad strong. Endless numbers needs a small tweak. Artillery team needs a little love.  Overall I like the game's place balance-wise and am very happy with it.

Looking forward to....?

Sandman! (The Dreamer / Nightmare faction thing that came about as a result of the World Wide Malifaux Event) as well as the TOS Model for the TTB Doctor from the TTB World Wide Event. 

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What faction(s) are you playing?

Abyssinia. I really like the asthetic, and I like the elite style gameplay.

What faction(s) are you playing against?

Gibbering Hordes, mostly, but we do have all four factions distributed over the four players that are active here.

One or double commander?

I have not played a two commander game yet, unfortunately. I am looking forward to it, though!

Overall impression

I like it. The game rules are nice and fluid, the gameplay feels good. The models are really great!

What do you like/dislike about your chosen faction?

I love the mini-titans. Both the sculpts and the idea of having a combined element to your army. I just think they are a bit too strong, they tend to swing games. But I have to see if that evens out in two commander games.

I like the prototype mechanic, but they are not balanced at all. Flare Gun is really strong, while Discus Grenades look weak in comparrison. I like the situational nature of Active Defenses Armor and Shock Batons, though.

Anything you are concerned about, ruleswise or anything else?

Balance is an issue. Some units are too strong for what they cost (eel, rhino, mechanized infantry), some are too weak (artillery). But the game is new, lets see how things pan out. I am also a bit concerned for the imbalanced distribution of resouces over the factions. Abyssinia has a lot of card draw, Cult has some, Empire and Hordes have almost none. That may be a problem in the future.

Looking forward to....?

More fleshed out guild and court. Interested in what the kingdoms and Kimon will bring in terms of playstyle. Also, more Abyssinia. Always more Abyssinia :)

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What faction(s) are you playing?

Cult of the Burning Man

What faction(s) are you playing against?

Abyssinia mostly, just wrapped up a tournament where I got to play against Hordes and KE players more though. 

One or double commander?

the tournament was 1 commander so we've been playing a lot of that. Hoping to switch to mostly two commander now. Also 2v2 team games and 1v1v1v1s!

Overall impression

Super fun! I wish there were more Operations to play, but the ones we currently have are providing enough variety for the time being.

What do you like/dislike about your chosen faction?

I love the play style and esthetic of everything so far. Only thing I sort of dislike is how reliant several squads are on having a Raving Madman. 

Anything you are concerned about, rules wise or anything else?

I don't like that gibbering hordes get arbitrarily screwed on Pitched Assault due to how their glory mechanic works. I'm hoping that gets fixed eventually 

Looking forward to....?

All of the new factions coming out! I know a few people holding out for them :)

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 A. Kings empire, with splashes of Abyssinia

B. common opponents gibbering hordes, sometimes Abby, rarely to never cult or other kingsmen

C. one or double, but single most often

D overall: love the game cant get enough, wish more people where willing to get in.

F. Havent played with everything but so far I have no real complaints about kings, except that healing is not native to them. love how tricky they feel and they are great fighters to boot.  

G. concerns: Feels like the game could die at any moment. barely anyone plays here, people have been selling off pledges and LVO didnt even run any events for ToS. just... there's a lot of issues..I just hope this game keeps going...

- looking forward to... THE GUILD and Co2, more lore and eventually the next two factions, really just the game expanding and hopefully the player base.

Also prize/guilder support, would love to be able to spend guilders on alternate soldiers or commanders. maybe lady infiltrators or grenadier with rocket launcher etc.

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Gotta say tho, i'm curious whats happened with home front and obsidian gate. AKA when is the sandmen and KE: Dr. Watson adjunct  being released.

I think Obsidian gate concluded a year ago.

 

Anyways would be nice to see some new stuff instead of a drip feed of releases to catch up

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- what faction(s) are you playing?

King's Empire

- against?

Mostly Cult to my eternal despair, and once against Abyssinia and Gibbering

- one or double commander?

4 games of each time under the belt now

- overall impression

Like the core ruleset a lot, though there are things that raise eyebrows like how LoS with Titans work, but I'm mostly very happy with the core rules and every faction certainly has an identity-

- what do you like/dislike about your chosen faction? (Flavour, units, their overall perfomance, unclear rules which could've been written better, ....just a few of the top of my head)

I like how straightforward they are and most of the units have a role. Infiltrators when you need forward presence for Marker placement/taking, Field Intelligence Corps if you want to deny hand usage to your opponent (useless exercise against Cult, but forced a Gibbering opponent to not even draw cards the whole game since he knew I would strip his hand at top speed with them, Borderers for tarpitting (though I use them with Behind Enemy lines all the time), Grenadiers who are your versatile damage, Rifle Corps which are your melee destroyers once in glory and the King's Hand which after the last tournament I'm convinced is the best titan of the lot, since Symbol of the Realm can be so powerful plus the guns stacked on top. Dragoons I haven't plated, but in theory should kick lots of ass, though only 2 fireteams worries me. Sharpshooters are also solid attachments even if they are the least fancy of the batch.

The other units though seem pretty shit. Motor Scouts are literally point fillers, even though they are supposed to be on bicicles, they are barely faster than other units, getting them into glory takes an act of faith or the King's Hand to be close and so on. Sad spectacle that a model with so much personality is such an afterthought. Artillery team looks like shit to me, haven't fielded it though another Empire player in the tourny stated that it was a waste of script. Thankfully it's only those 2 units which are think are crap in the King's Empire and Thrace covers the slack and then some for a cheap useful model.

I really like Charles Edmonton, Margaret I have more issues getting mileage out of, but that's a practice thing, but sadly both are eclipsed by Kassa which is another thing that frankly annoys me. Since King's Empire is allergic to card draw and aren't particularly good at Ta token generation, Kassa single handedly solves both issues in a single swoop and then some. She's mostly just flipping assets like a muppet, but the amount of card draw she generates plus the Tactic token generation (stacked with the Keep Calm and Carry On combo) really lets King's Empire actually play with resources and it is a VERY different game than with Edmonton and Margaret as the commanders.

- anything you are concerned about, ruleswise or anything else?

Fuck the Rhinos.

Aside from that, biggest concerns is interactions that feel really gamey or like if they weren't properly tested. Kassa's asset dance with a Titan just feels like gaming the system for example. How absurdly important Ta tokens are also makes it seem like Ta generation is king, which makes it seem like the Guild and Court of Two envoys have to be stapled to every army if you want to keep up resource wise (and they are both too cheap for what they bring anyway). It's also really annoying that none of the factions have a native Champion of their own so it doesn't feel like a requirement to always reach for them.

Cult of the burning man as a whole feels oppressive. I was convinced that King's Empire was just the shit faction till I played against the other ones and noticed that I don't have it that bad, it's just that Cult has it very good, they have a solution for every problem AND absurd mobility AND aren't really frail. I faced a Twisted Horror spam list with Femtom and Adeodatos that Cycled deck every turn, the Twisted horrors where flying all over the place with their double activations and yes, their magic attacks don't reach as far as my guns, but that's a moot point due to portals AND they don't have to worry about cover ever, which is something that is omnipresent when the whole battle plan is based on guns.

My other big concern is the radio silence on the game. The tournament rules and Faq were much appreciated, but they both came out out of nowhere and nothing has been said since. The tournament rules promise a Tournament price pack, but the local Henchman has confirmed that it doesn't exist. Distribution is a joke where I'm at, Titans are still not puchasable in store and I believe those were November releases and this is a huge problem for induction, we had to allow proxies to play the last tournament and now the idea is to do a League, but kind of hard to get people interested when you inform them that there is no release schedule to be had of when they can buy stuff in store and I would rather not have to order international for new stuff. No plans or whispers or rumours or anything on the new alligiences and I'm also still waiting on the Adjunt that King's Empire won from the Obsidian Gate campaign. So yeah, I'm lucky to have an active community where I'm at, but frankly, the company support for the game seems non existant and I wouldn't be surprised more than a few stores had already dropped it due to lack of interest.

- looking forward to....?

Any sort of active showing that Wyrd cares about the game at this point. I just hope that the silence was all due to the M3E process and that The Other Side can get some spotlight.

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