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Kharnage

Doggo Buff Idea

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So as it stands, for 1 more stone, Corrupted Hounds are outclassed by tots in basically every way. Spamming dogs for pack mentality sounds cool, but having 4 3 wound models with df 4 in a ball trying to tangle with anything that matters, especially for probably giving myself such a steep initiative disadvantage in the pass tokens department, is not that good. Tots have better defenses, and more synergy with their crew, which even at a 33% increase in cost, is worth the value, meaning Corrupted Hounds are likely to never see play.
As @Le gob mentioned in the Daw Vs Nekima report thread, what if we gave them a useful-to-Nephilim ability; digging up corpses? Does anyone have issues with this? 

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I too would like to see the hounds get something that's actually useful. Pack mentality sounds more like a trap ability than anything else. The one thing the doggos have going for them is scheme running, and you don't want them ganging up for that.

If they were in any other crew they would probably have greater value because they are decently fast, but the nephilim crew is already one of the fastest crews in the game. Alright you could fly them around to get them where you need them, but that's pretty much all, and as @Kharnage already pointed out a terror tot works just as well for 1SS more and have far more utility for doing other stuff as well.

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Tough disagreeing with you @Kharnage LOL... 

 

Hounds are Mv6 and significant models for 3ss.  I think they  should really be spread out and threatening lanes for breakthrough, search the ruins, power ritual, etc...

In my experience I've hired 4 dogs and 2 tots. Thats 20ss and a lot of flexibility given the 6" movement on all of them and their ability to be carried. I see pack mentality more as an opportunistic ability for an activated and over extended model not as a main focus. They drop corpses in death for your other models to eat all the same and punish models for hitting them in melee with BB.

Being fast and small means they can hide pretty well and get rides with other models flying with them.  In terms of a scatter and pick off strategy, I dont think there is another crew that does it better. Saying you'd bring terror tots for 1ss more is a fine argument but sometimes when making a list you dont want to spend those stones, all you need is a significant model that can threaten a scheme. Any thing that deters an opponent attacking your master is big. If theyre in a position to attack Nekima or go after a dog on a flank because it might score a VP, its a tough call. That's what a good fast crew is all about, you cant stop everything.   

This is also where I've had success with Heyriddens aura. He has sort of acted as the retainer for the hounds.. theyre hunter if you will. His aura healed them, he was able to punish models that charged one of them and he sort of acted as a buffer for them to penetrate the back field and scheme.

I appreciate not being happy with what the model offers but at 3ss its asking a lot to add an ability that would make them an "auto take". I think at 3ss having a fast, small, significant model, that has the keyword abilities is just fine in the right pool. Overwhelming actions are a thing despite pass tokens. I am one that has always taken larger crews over more elite ones and I havent felt outclassed in a scheme pool that calls for action economy and speed.  

 

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8 minutes ago, Passenty said:

how do they heal with hayreddin when they get one-shoted most of the time?

This. So much min 3 in the game, or 2 with crit strike available, against Df 4, it's not hard to get a single AP taking these dogs out, where minimum 4 is much harder for a Tot and they have protected to layer on top of it. Not that every model ever is dealing 3 damage, but if it's all I have to deal in order to remove 2 significant AP you best believe I'm roasting some dogs as an opponent. There's only so much board the dogs can run to while running schemes, since most of them have specific locations they have to reach anyway that can be played against. And I find "but they provoke Insolence on death" to be a small comfort. 

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2 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

This. So much min 3 in the game, or 2 with crit strike available, against Df 4, it's not hard to get a single AP taking these dogs out, where minimum 4 is much harder for a Tot and they have protected to layer on top of it. Not that every model ever is dealing 3 damage, but if it's all I have to deal in order to remove 2 significant AP you best believe I'm roasting some dogs as an opponent. There's only so much board the dogs can run to while running schemes, since most of them have specific locations they have to reach anyway that can be played against. And I find "but they provoke Insolence on death" to be a small comfort. 

That's fine and I appreciate the approach and experience. I still see min 2 out there and also make sure to position models to either counter charge or pull enemies out of position. 

I think the Nephilim offer a crew that has an option at 7 significant Mv6 models for 24ss. Some of which can grow off the others demise into better models. Couple that with a Master and Henchman that fly and deal serious damage in Melee and you can really spread them out and pick off aggressors. Sure shooting is a problem but that should be mitigated by cover/terrain. 

Terrain and schemes/opponent will have a lot to do with the hiring process but Im arguing that they are viable models at 3ss in the right pool against the right opponent.  I see them a perfectly viable models in the keyword. 

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1 hour ago, Fixxer said:

I see them a perfectly viable models in the keyword. 

The keyword they're in is precisely my problem. Nephilim are to my observation, exactly the group of people who don't need any more access to fast scheme runners. All we do is go fast (and fight things) so offering me a growless poor man's tot with way more 'got-one-shotted' likelihood for one stone less with no real claim to fame means that I'm not really incentivized to pick a box of dogs up any more than I was last edition, unless they can offer me something else that a tot can't do. If we just can't justify that at this price point, that's fine. If you like them, use them, but I'll be sticking to tots and growth for Mama Nekima, rather than Dog Walker Nekima 🤣

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1 hour ago, yool1981 said:

Wouldn't regurgitate mean they will be auto picks?

Shamans on crows can generate corpse markers just fine, as long as they have a friendly model to swing at, since we all regenerate here. No one's complaining about how busted OP her totem is, so I think auto pick is a bit of an exaggeration. Besides, if 3 wound models with defense 4 and no other appreciable defensive tech are my opponent's auto pick models, I'm doing all right. 

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1 hour ago, yool1981 said:

Wouldn't regurgitate mean they will be auto picks?

Can't we give them Stealth and lose a Wp point?

I dont think regurgitate would make them auto picks, nor would I think they'd regurgitate more than turn one in most cases. A lot of crews are "set up" crews and take turn 1 to sit back and power up. I dont think it would make them auto takes, it would just add another layer of use which is what @Kharnage wants from the model. I dont think they'd add a brand new action to the mix so borrowing regurgitate form the Blood Hunter seems like an easy trial action. Perhaps make the hounds a non bonus action to differentiate it from the totem. 

Just throwing out ideas. 

Stealth might not be a bad idea, I think that'd be kind of strong considering how I tend to use them. I mean, more the merrier, I wouldnt be opposed to adding something to them. Just dont want to sacrifice their cost, movement, or significance. That trifecta is solid, IMO but am open to changes that dont mess with those traits. 

 

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