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bedjy

Kamaitachi

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Hi, so there is this little lad I still don't understand why it remains as is.

Currently, it will be bonkers against crews like somer for the draw and there is a huge problem in the use of the Dust Devil Marker (DDM) :

Kamaitachi with a Flicker token :

Use :ToS-Fast: to place a Dust Devil Marker within 6", discarding a flicker token.
Charge a friendly model, using from beyond, cheat a :mask if need be to trigger Into the Vortex :

:maskInto the Vortex:Push a friendly Dust Devil Marker up to 6". Any models the Dust Devil Marker comes into contact with during this Push suffer 1 damage and gain Staggered.

Do it again.

So if I'm not wrong, in a single activation, you can have Kamaitachi place a DDM on a model (dealing 1dmg from hazardous) and pushing it twice (staggered ; 1dmg from hazardous, 1dmg from Vortex ; 1dmg from hazardous, 1dmg from Vortex), to at least 1 model. For a total of 5 damage, without any chance for the enemy model to resist.

I played it yesterday and found the model really awful in its use. It's insignificant (why ?). It's such a fragile model. And it has OP combo. In fact currently, I would summerize Kamaitachi as a trash model with OP actions/ability. Kind of a weird spot, because of its clunky mechanics.

Or could just say : Into the Vortex is enemy only, but then the model would be pure trash unless playing against Ulix or Som'er for its draw ability. Then it would be op, hidden in the depth of our deployment zone.

Ideas of things that could change :

  • Change the draw to draw+discard when an enemy model is summoned
  • Remove insignificant.
  • Make Into the vortex enemy only, give its Talons in-built :mask, remove the 1 dmg (still the one from pushing a hazardous)
  • Remove Destructible from the DDM.
  • Give Kamaitachi some defensive tricks/utility things.

 

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The Kamaitachi used to be the universal 10t totem and therefore was insignificant. Why it stayed insignificant, I don't know, maybe because it's just a weasel?

I agree that the mechanics with the Weaselnado are weird. I always hit my own models with it for the trigger and keep the Kamaitachi in the background for its draw cards ability. Doesn't seem to make much sense, but that's how it works 🙂

 

But why did they rename the Weaselnado? WHY? >>

 

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On 2/11/2019 at 9:53 AM, Lechuzo_Loco said:

The Kamaitachi used to be the universal 10t totem and therefore was insignificant. Why it stayed insignificant, I don't know, maybe because it's just a weasel?

I agree that the mechanics with the Weaselnado are weird. I always hit my own models with it for the trigger and keep the Kamaitachi in the background for its draw cards ability. Doesn't seem to make much sense, but that's how it works 🙂

 

But why did they rename the Weaselnado? WHY? >>

 

As much as an awesome nickname wonder weasel is and weaselnado was fine as a filler name for an ability while things were being set up, I actually hope that it does not stick for final form. Dust Devil is fine.

a proposed change on the front of the card

Wonder Weasel > Wonderous Animal. 

This would actually open up to allow some other model designs using this (simplified gaming terms is what is being gone for right?) while not sounding like a goofy nickname (again I love it just not when its made real on the card)

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59 minutes ago, Lechuzo_Loco said:

Why can't mf be funny and use "goofy nicknames"? It's not chess after all.

Given that Sandeep's summon upgrade just got the "With Our Powers Combined" ability that allows gamin to fuse into a golem, I don't think they're afraid of injecting humour into Malifaux.

I just wish the Kamaitachi was significant.

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1 hour ago, Lechuzo_Loco said:

Why can't mf be funny and use "goofy nicknames"? It's not chess after all.

Don’t get me wrong there are and have always been some great tongue in cheek references in ability names and other areas of the game, but weaselnado just doesn’t do it for me and wonder weasel also just feels a bit too tried

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3 hours ago, StefMcGlen said:

Don’t get me wrong there are and have always been some great tongue in cheek references in ability names and other areas of the game, but weaselnado just doesn’t do it for me and wonder weasel also just feels a bit too tried

Like the old bonus action of Lynch "BlackJack and Hookers" . A clear reference to Bender from Futurama xD that was amazing

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1 hour ago, wookiejunior said:

Just played a game against Hamelin where I drew an obscene amount of cards. Would suggest changing it to when a non-mindless model is summoned.

Maybe, although that would also mean no card draw from Ressers summoning Mindless Zombies.

Do you think it was a hard counter? I don't think it's any worse than Lucius drawing a card from Qi & Gong using leverage.

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5 hours ago, Da Git said:

Maybe, although that would also mean no card draw from Ressers summoning Mindless Zombies.

Do you think it was a hard counter? I don't think it's any worse than Lucius drawing a card from Qi & Gong using leverage.

I think the difference would be the investment needed to counter. If the opponent declares Hamelin you can always go for the wind-weasel without significant investment. It's a whole different story to go for Lucius as secondary master (if you hadn't already declared him as leader) to counter the Qui & Gong. I could foresee that no outcast player aware of this counter would declare Hamelin when facing ten thunders, at least not in a setting that is even mildy competitive. 

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My impression is that the Kamaitachi is in a very odd place. The card draw is basically the only reason I would ever take him, as the current version of Weaselnado is extremely difficult to get any use out of. He probably needs a pretty extensive redesign. If I were to suggest smaller changes, I'd go for card draw being once per turn and Weaselnado being easier to move without putting him in quite as much danger.

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8 hours ago, wookiejunior said:

Just played a game against Hamelin where I drew an obscene amount of cards. Would suggest changing it to when a non-mindless model is summoned.

Is this possibly a case of just first game against said model feels OP? Kamaitachi isn't a difficult model to kill, why did you opponent let him live, couldn't this just be rectified by your opponents target priority changing? 

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1 hour ago, Reservoir Dog said:

Is this possibly a case of just first game against said model feels OP? Kamaitachi isn't a difficult model to kill, why did you opponent let him live, couldn't this just be rectified by your opponents target priority changing? 

There is no range, neither LOS requirement. You can hide kamaitachi at the end of deployment behind LOS blocker and it will still draw a lot of cards.

Every use of voracious rat, inevitable fate, not to mention Loyal rats with tiny hats, feels like liability.

People were using bloodwretch and doppelganger hitting Serena to get the amount of cards you could get from just having kamaitachi on the table vs a spam summoner. 

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1 hour ago, Radek said:
1 hour ago, Radek said:

There is no range, neither LOS requirement. You can hide kamaitachi at the end of deployment behind LOS blocker and it will still draw a lot of cards.

Every use of voracious rat, inevitable fate, not to mention Loyal rats with tiny hats, feels like liability.

People were using bloodwretch and doppelganger hitting Serena to get the amount of cards you could get from just having kamaitachi on the table vs a spam summoner. 

Didn't realise there was no range on it.  I don't like table wide abilities. I'd just put a range on it I think

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I think putting a range on it, or making once a turn, would remove basically all utility from this model. 

I agree that he probably needs a complete overhaul, but for the time being stopping the summoning against mindless models seems like the easiest fix for the exploit. 

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17 hours ago, wookiejunior said:

I think putting a range on it, or making once a turn, would remove basically all utility from this model. 

I agree that he probably needs a complete overhaul, but for the time being stopping the summoning against mindless models seems like the easiest fix for the exploit. 

Yes the non mindless restriction seems to be the one. So this would be ok for the "draw engine" part.
Now there is still the use of this model on the board. Is its goal to remain quite far attacking its own friend trying to get that mask ? Dealing insane amount of unavoidable damage if he gets it ? 

Devour Souls is quite a poor ability on models like Tengus, amanjaku & Kamaitachi (looks like a bad joke). Insignificant means this model will definitly try nothing else than sitting backwards.
Well, and the Dust devil marker mechanism is... well, not what's intended (at least I hope). 

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2 minutes ago, bedjy said:

Now there is still the use of this model on the board. Is its goal to remain quite far attacking its own friend trying to get that mask ? Dealing insane amount of unavoidable damage if he gets it ? 

The damage was fixed (now deals only the damage from the Hazardous , but it still gives Staggered). 

But it still seems the most logic use of it, not for the damage but for the Staggered 

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How does

Quote

Kaimatachi: get kill credit for Dust Devil Kills.

make any sense? He's still insignificant...

Since "Into the Vortex is Enemy only" now, all you can hire Kamaitachi for now is to draw cards while sitting behind some building deep in the deployment zone.

Sad...

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10 minutes ago, Lechuzo_Loco said:

make any sense? He's still insignificant...

Probably for the Ability Devour the Soul. So it can discard a Flicker Token. 

The Action of the Dust Devil has the Discard a Flicker Token cost in italics . It is always been like that? Or it is a very old legacy from the first version of Asami?

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16 minutes ago, Lechuzo_Loco said:

How does

make any sense? He's still insignificant...

Since "Into the Vortex is Enemy only" now, all you can hire Kamaitachi for now is to draw cards while sitting behind some building deep in the deployment zone.

Sad...

Schemes only care about if an enemy model kills a friendly model, so it keeping insignificant or not doesn't matter for getting kill credit on an action that can only damage enemy models.

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2 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Schemes only care about if an enemy model kills a friendly model, so it keeping insignificant or not doesn't matter for getting kill credit on an action that can only damage enemy models.

Nope.  As far as the strat goes, something that doesn't exist killed a friendly model.  Insignificant means the model doesn't count for schemes/strats in any way.

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1 minute ago, retnab said:

Nope.  As far as the strat goes, something that doesn't exist killed a friendly model.  Insignificant means the model doesn't count for schemes/strats in any way.

Well I did say schemes. But I did forget that Turf War requires it be a model killing an enemy model.

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Well, this last update is the worst case scenario I was fearing for the little lad.

Now it is a very expensive model to hire, but against Som'er & Ulix (those will make us draw quite some cards anyway). It is very frail, with a very poor attack. If it was summonable, I'd say it's ok

 

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On 3/23/2019 at 4:20 PM, bedjy said:

Well, this last update is the worst case scenario I was fearing for the little lad.

Now it is a very expensive model to hire, but against Som'er & Ulix (those will make us draw quite some cards anyway). It is very frail, with a very poor attack. If it was summonable, I'd say it's ok

 

+1, in my opinion such measures as deleting damage and hazardous  from DDM, enough to balance that oni, he still must be near the battle to zoning and slowing enemy models, but he would have lost a lots of damage from DDM.   I think it's fair you pay one of yours model HP and card from hand (quite often) to move DDM, if opponent got good positioning you wouldn’t got big advantage from DDM and it Distructible by the way.
I'll try to test it more, but i think kamaitachi will push his DDM once per game, because he too weak for melee battles(

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