King's Empire Rapid Maneuvering, how many cards to discard?

[ArcMaster]

If a unit that is a squad of 3 fire teams, and each of those fire teams wants to utilize the Rapid Maneuvering part of the King's Empire Allegiance card,  how many cards does the controller discard?

[spooky_squirrel]

One card for the whole Squad.

The text of the Ability granted by the Allegiance card answers this explicitly:

Quote

Rapid Maneuvering: King's Empire Squads in this Company that receive the Rush Order may discard a card to take a Action instead of a Action.

The Squad receives the Rush Order and may choose to discard a card. If it does so, it can shoot instead of stabbing at the end of the Rush Order. This Ability modifies the Rush Order itself (pg. 21 of pdf):

Quote

Orders: When a unit Activates, it must be given an Order. Orders dictate what a unit may do during its Activation.
[...]
Rush -- This Order cannot be given if any Fireteam in the unit is Engaged (see pg. 27 [pdf]). Each Fireteam in the unit may move a number of inches up to twice its Speed AV. After moving every Fireteam in the unit may perform a if able.

Since both the Ability and the issuance of the Order refer to the Unit level (Squad), the modification affects the whole Squad if the cost of discarding a single card is paid.

If the Ability were worded "King's Empire Fireteams in this company" then it would be one card per Fireteam in the Squad. There are deeper implications of this wording than just making it more expensive for a Squad, but that's for another topic.

 

[Tris]

7 minutes ago, spooky_squirrel said:

One card for the whole Squad.

The text of the Ability granted by the Allegiance card answers this explicitly:

The Squad receives the Rush Order and may choose to discard a card. If it does so, it can shoot instead of stabbing at the end of the Rush Order. This Ability modifies the Rush Order itself (pg. 21 of pdf):

Since both the Ability and the issuance of the Order refer to the Unit level (Squad), the modification affects the whole Squad if the cost of discarding a single card is paid.

If the Ability were worded "King's Empire Fireteams in this company" then it would be one card per Fireteam in the Squad. There are deeper implications of this wording than just making it more expensive for a Squad, but that's for another topic.

 

But isn't that the same problematic wording we've encountered on Thrace?

Her action says a friendly squad may take -a- projectile action, and we came to the consensus that it's a single action in that case.

 

What's the difference here?

 

 

I would happily play it that way myself as KE is my main atm, just not sure how to do it and I think a FAQ entry is warranted.

[spooky_squirrel]

6 minutes ago, Tris said:

But isn't that the same problematic wording we've encountered on Thrace?

Her action says a friendly squad may take -a- projectile action, and we came to the consensus that it's a single action in that case.

What's the difference here?

I would happily play it that way myself as KE is my main atm, just not sure how to do it and I think a FAQ entry is warranted.

Thrace is granting an Action to a Squad.

This modifies the Rush Order, which limits Actions available to a Squad as a part of that Order, note the key word "instead" in the Ability.

[Tris]

1 minute ago, spooky_squirrel said:

Thrace is granting an Action to a Squad.

This modifies the Rush Order, which limits Actions available to a Squad as a part of that Order.

Just so that we have all the relevant wordings here:

 

Thraces "Fire at Will":

Target Squad with at leastone Fireteam in range takes a  Action.

-> we came to the consensus in various other threads that we´re talking about a singular action here, because after one fireteam in the squad shoots, the fireteam has taken !an! action.

 

KEs "Rapid Manouvering":

King`s Empire Squads in this company that receive the Rush Order may discard a card to take a  Action instead of a  action.

 

So, both effects refer to an Action taken by a Squad, why do we see them differently?

Again, genuine question as I would like it to be that way, just need to justify my "powerplay"^^

[spooky_squirrel]

Thrace is granting an Action to a Squad. She checks range to see if a Squad has at least one Fireteam in range, and if so, a Fireteam from that Squad then takes the Action. The consensus that we reached was that once any Fireteam in that Squad took that action, then the singular Action granted to the Squad is complete.

Granting an Action is different than modifying an Order. Modifying an Order is not granting it an Action.

With the Rush Order, Squads are not doing a single melee attack, they have the restriction that normally the only action that may be taken is a melee attack. Due to the wording of "instead of" this Ability modifies the Rush Order, thus you replace the portion of the Order that says "a " with "a " which changes the action restriction as a part of the Rush Order.

I agree that the wording could be clearer, perhaps to language more along the lines of "[Rush Ordered Squad may discard a card], if it does so then after moving, every Fireteam in this Squad takes a Action if able." ...which explicitly substitutes in the modification I described above, but is clumsy about it.

[Clement]

I'm not sure the logic holds...  without instead of, you'd get to take a  AND a  action on the rush order.  "Instead of" stops KE squads from attacking twice at the end of the rush.

I think the reword you mention could have been done more easily with just "King’s Empire Squads in this Company that receive the Rush Order may discard a card to let every Fireteam in the unit may perform a Action instead of a Action."

 

Here's hoping we get this on an FAQ.  Maybe more often then every 6 months?  It's a new game and all, it's bound to need more attention.