Blocking Forests and other terrain questions

[Tris]

So, I have some problems with LoS and cover rules in ToS, especially regarding such mundane terrain features as forest, large buildings and long walls, as well as "special" shaped terrain - L-shaped for example in my writings below.

 

Now a copy from my fb post as I don`t want to type teh whole thing again^^

 

Where in the rules do I find anything about forests and what happens if I stand in! a piece of blocking terrain?

Only thing I was able to find is  p. 43 of the GRB.

At first:

"If at least one sight line can be drawn without being blocked, the Fireteam has LoS to the targe"
- but we are talking about a Fireteam standing completely in! a blocking forest, so in theory all sight lines are blocked.
- Definition of blocked:
"When determining LoS, sight lines that pass through this terrain are blocked to units on the other side."
-> so, are a Fireteams sight lines "passing through" the forest if said fireteam is completely within the forest or not?

Second:
"When a Fireteam can draw LoS to a target but at least one of it`s sight lines is blocked by an object more than 2" away from it the target is considered to have cover from the Fireteam."
- so, I get that as soon as even a single of my sight lines is blocked or went through conceiling terrain the opp. get`s cover, but the definition of an "object" becomes the tricky part here imo.
-> so, imagine a long wall or the side of a building, one fireteam at each of two corners - they can see each other, but do they get cover?
I would say no, as the object that would provide cover is in 2" of the acting fireteam.
Has the potential to get rather silly though with bigger buildings and long walls.
Same with the forest example above - if I could see something while standing in a forest, would my target get cover?
Do I ignore all of the forest, as he`s defined as one "object" and I´m in 2" of it, regardless of it`s size?
Imagine L-shaped objects - fireteams on each side, is the whole thing a single object, so I get to ignore the long side as well as the short side?

If anyone has any questions just ask, I would like that all aspects of this discussion are as clear as possible.

btw., the whole point of me asking is that I want to be 100% sure about the basic rules before I can try and set some house rules (if neccessary) for future events, demo games and so on, so if you have an opinion and somewhere in the rules to point to, please join the discussion.
We should be able to collect some facts for a future FAQ at least 

 

I would provide some example pics but can`t bring them to be small enough for the forum here 😕

 

Any experiences, rulings or ideas from your side?

Would greatly appreciate any help

 

 

 

 

[retnab]

1) All LoS to and from the model would be blocked. Blocking terrain really should be used only with Impassable IMO for that reason.

2) Yes, objects are ignored for Cover (and Cover only) if they're within 2" of the model. You really shouldnt be using big long pieces of terrain in TOS for this reason

[Tris]

8 minutes ago, retnab said:

1) All LoS to and from the model would be blocked. Blocking terrain really should be used only with Impassable IMO for that reason.

2) Yes, objects are ignored for Cover (and Cover only) if they're within 2" of the model. You really shouldnt be using big long pieces of terrain in TOS for this reason

Yeah, I would agree with both of your points tbh, but think that should be erratad/faqed because it robs you of a lot of the "standard" terrain for this game and just seems like, let`s say, "not ideal" rules writing atm, especially as forests are one of the examples given in the rulebook itself.

 

I would rule forests as in Maliafux tbh, don`t know what I should do about that 2nd point - even our scatter terrain often has funny shapes to looka little irregalur on the table...

 

Thank you for the fast response though

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Tris said:

I would rule forests as in Maliafux tbh, don`t know what I should do about that 2nd point - even our scatter terrain often has funny shapes to looka little irregalur on the table...

Well, even the current Malifaux 3rd edition draft rules include suggestions about breaking large or irregularly shaped terrain into pieces.  I mean, surely you've run into the L-shaped problem:

<PRE>
         ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    A.   +           B
</PRE>

The +'s a continuous L-shaped terrain piece.  B's an inch away from it.  The lines of sight from A to B go across the cover granted terrain, so B gets cover and A doesn't.

But if you break the terrain into two pieces at the joint in the L, B doesn't get cover.

 

That's the same sort of the situation.

----

Although, speaking of TOS's Forests...

Quote

Forest (Dense): Difficult, Concealing, Blocking

The only sensible way I've figured out how to read this is that the forest is:

• Difficult terrain
• It is Concealing for fireteams overlapping the forest's base
• "Concealing, Blocking" together means that you can't draw line of sight from completely through the forest.  A fireteam outside the forest can draw line of sight to a fireteam inside the forest, but not to a fireteam outside of it on the other side of the forest.  If you're drawing line of sight where the forest is partially blocking line of sight, it'll grant cover as usual.

That's about as bad from an apparent paradox standpoint as Malifaux walls being "Climbable, Impassable".  

 

[retnab]

For Forests specifically I think it's got to be a typo, both Concealing and Blocking really doesn't make sense.

[Tris]

Just now, retnab said:

For Forests specifically I think it's got to be a typo, both Concealing and Blocking really doesn't make sense.

Does someone know a Wyrd staff member to tag for FAQs?

 

Or someplace to post these questions, typos and mistakes for them to look over?

[retnab]

The Rules forum's your best bet but I'm sure they check here too.

[Tris]

28 minutes ago, retnab said:

The Rules forum's your best bet but I'm sure they check here too.

I´m just not sure the format of the rules forum fit`s the question tbh I´m no friend of that post "bumping" as it removes any semblance of coherency from the discussion.

[unknownuser65]

Cant a mod just move this thread there? That is the usual approach in other forums.