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Cadaver_Junkie

Unbalanced Hiring?

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6 hours ago, Liched said:

My biggest issue with hiring is how in some crews, the vision of playing a thematic crew doesn't jam with rock-papers-scissors part. 

Thus some crews who have more models in the theme or have a greater set of tools is inherently more efficient than the crews that don't. Which becomes a little bit of an issue if the focus lies on balancing singular models against one another.

"Doesn't jam with rock-paper-scissor part". As in they are too counterable? Then, IMHO, it's an issue with the crew. I know some crews have lower hiring pool, but I think they will expand over time.

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2 hours ago, trikk said:

"Doesn't jam with rock-paper-scissor part". As in they are too counterable? Then, IMHO, it's an issue with the crew. I know some crews have lower hiring pool, but I think they will expand over time.

Both that the crew might be too easy to counter, or that the crew has a hard time countering anyone. 

Probably, but I find it weird to let crews leave beta feeling jank 

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8 minutes ago, Liched said:

Both that the crew might be too easy to counter, or that the crew has a hard time countering anyone. 

Probably, but I find it weird to let crews leave beta feeling jank 

The first one is an issue that IMHO should be addressed. The second one I don't really find as an issue. If your master plays ok versus everyone then I don't think it's problematic.

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1 hour ago, trikk said:

The first one is an issue that IMHO should be addressed. The second one I don't really find as an issue. If your master plays ok versus everyone then I don't think it's problematic.

If the crew can't really counter anyone then they need to have higher then average stats to compensate. But I think most of these issues comes from crews not having a solid vision and being left partway through. 

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11 minutes ago, Liched said:

If the crew can't really counter anyone then they need to have higher then average stats to compensate. But I think most of these issues comes from crews not having a solid vision and being left partway through. 

They don't really need it. A crew with no counters and that doesn't counter anyone is better than a crew that hard counters and is being hard-countered.

If they crew has and is not a counter, then they just need average stats and be fun to play with. I'm generally not a fan of counters. The crew you choose should be mostly about scoring/denying VP, just like M2E.

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12 minutes ago, trikk said:

They don't really need it. A crew with no counters and that doesn't counter anyone is better than a crew that hard counters and is being hard-countered.

If they crew has and is not a counter, then they just need average stats and be fun to play with. I'm generally not a fan of counters. The crew you choose should be mostly about scoring/denying VP, just like M2E.

There are some crews that are very easy to counter and only counter very niche things at a "meh" level. 

If your crew is meh to play and there are some seriously overtuned models in certain factions/crews that you need to bring a counter to or just be miserable for 3-4h then? xD

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19 minutes ago, Liched said:

There are some crews that are very easy to counter and only counter very niche things at a "meh" level. 

If your crew is meh to play and there are some seriously overtuned models in certain factions/crews that you need to bring a counter to or just be miserable for 3-4h then? xD

While I agree, I think you're looking at it the wrong way.

If a crew is meh to play then the goal should be to make it fun to play. And if there are overtuned models in other factions, then you need to tune them accordingly. Else we have an arms race and arms race usually has one winner.

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1 hour ago, trikk said:

While I agree, I think you're looking at it the wrong way.

If a crew is meh to play then the goal should be to make it fun to play. And if there are overtuned models in other factions, then you need to tune them accordingly. Else we have an arms race and arms race usually has one winner.

I like player interaction so I actually prefer if crews can be soft-countered and played around in smart way. And I'm assuming we are on the same page there?

yeah. I think you run into an interesting problem where a crew is viewed as strong/over average, but is a snooze-fest to play

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6 hours ago, Liched said:

I like player interaction so I actually prefer if crews can be soft-countered and played around in smart way. And I'm assuming we are on the same page there?

yeah. I think you run into an interesting problem where a crew is viewed as strong/over average, but is a snooze-fest to play

I think soft counters should come from crews, not straight Master vs Master stuff. More like "Oh, he's playing master X, so he''ll most likely have model Y due to schemes, so I'll take model Z because he's good vs Y".

 

M2E Hamelin was considered a snooze-fest but he is DAAAAAAMN good. Definitely strong+boring needs a revamp to be less-strong+interactive.

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I think we are reaching a point where few keywords are hard counters.

It's more that some keywords are easy to tailer against. 

My main problem with hard counters is that it usually means the model is too strong if you don't bring the hard counter. I'd prefer if this was solved by adjusting the model that is being countered rather than all the models that can counter it

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1 hour ago, Cadaver_Junkie said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm just wondering if it was discussed in the brainstorming?

I'm pretty sure it came up, but, as you can see, we have issues with balancing 450 models for 1 cost. Making it 2 costs would be end up with multiple homicides and knife-fights

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59 minutes ago, trikk said:

I'm pretty sure it came up, but, as you can see, we have issues with balancing 450 models for 1 cost. Making it 2 costs would be end up with multiple homicides and knife-fights

Fair enough!

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2 hours ago, trikk said:

I'm pretty sure it came up, but, as you can see, we have issues with balancing 450 models for 1 cost. Making it 2 costs would be end up with multiple homicides and knife-fights

You're wrong!

*stabs @trikk with a spoon*

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1 hour ago, Morgan Vening said:

You're wrong!

*stabs @trikk with a spoon*

That's a problem with you <insert your nationality>. You bring a spoon to a knife-fight ;)

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