Waldo's Weekly - "I am the Key(word) Master!"

[Mason]

15 hours ago, Mike Wallace said:

But if I were part of the Guild trying to divide the M&SU and its Arcanist members, I'd start planting the rumors that the Guild created the Union. Then I could just sit back and watch them paranoid themselves to death. 

All things serve the Guild.

The Union was created less than a decade before the current game time. I don't think that anyone in the Union or Arcanists would believe such a rumor, nor would it really matter if they did. Not a whole lot of organizations are down with creating their own political opponents / terrorist organizations because they felt like they just had too much control over stuff.

[Primate]

Yeah, maybe if the average people were more scared of them it could work, pushing fearful people into the arms of the guild. But people aren't really scared of the M&SU in quite that way, and it's too fundamental to their bottom line to be something they'd plausibly mess with. Your average malifaux conspiracy theorist would probably have a better time saying that the guild created the Ressers. They're obviously scary and have a lot of ties to the guild.

[LunarSol]

People are generally less concerned about their government secretly exploiting them when they have to sleep at night wondering if a dead relative is going to show up and tear them apart or if the bed might come to life and eat them.

[Mason]

31 minutes ago, Primate said:

Yeah, maybe if the average people were more scared of them it could work, pushing fearful people into the arms of the guild. But people aren't really scared of the M&SU in quite that way, and it's too fundamental to their bottom line to be something they'd plausibly mess with. Your average malifaux conspiracy theorist would probably have a better time saying that the guild created the Ressers. They're obviously scary and have a lot of ties to the guild.

That's more plausible, though with the high profile of the Death Marshals (and the existence of necromancy prior to the Guild's arrival in Malifaux), it's still not a particularly great conspiracy theory, as far as they go.

Conspiracy theories about the Guild would work better if it was a relatively benign organization, but they're tyrants and have (or rather, had) the world pretty tightly clenched in their iron fist. I mean, this is an organization that, in Malifaux at least, rips people out of their homes in the middle of the night and burns away their souls to turn them into walking claymore mines.

You really don't need conspiracy theories about the Guild, because the semi-public truth is already pretty grim.

[lusciousmccabe]

Maybe there are conspiracy theories about them secrectly being good people and doing all this for the greater good.

Nah, what idiot would believe that!

[solkan]

You win the magic war to control magic, and what you really discover is that the world is full of sore losers.  — The Guild, probably.

[Mike Wallace]

4 hours ago, Mason said:

The Union was created less than a decade before the current game time. I don't think that anyone in the Union or Arcanists would believe such a rumor, nor would it really matter if they did. Not a whole lot of organizations are down with creating their own political opponents / terrorist organizations because they felt like they just had too much control over stuff.

The best way for a totalitarian state to deal with rebellion is to co-opt it. Lucius writes up the draft notes of a meeting discussing the creation of an "Arcanist Special Division," dusts them up to make them look old, and leaves them somewhere an enterprising muckraker would find them. Think of all the delightful chaos, Mason. Steeple your fingers and bwahaha with me. You can keep your canon canon, but this scenario sounds like too much fun for me to not try it in my TTB game.

[Mason]

41 minutes ago, Mike Wallace said:

The best way for a totalitarian state to deal with rebellion is to co-opt it. Lucius writes up the draft notes of a meeting discussing the creation of an "Arcanist Special Division," dusts them up to make them look old, and leaves them somewhere an enterprising muckraker would find them.

The Guild owns the two legal newspapers in town.

Just have Nellie push through an article about Arcanists doing terrible things and skip to the end result without having to deal with all the logistics of a false flag operation.  

[Adran]

29 minutes ago, Mason said:

The Guild owns the two legal newspapers in town.

Just have Nellie push through an article about Arcanists doing terrible things and skip to the end result without having to deal with all the logistics of a false flag operation.  

We know the false flag op is really to allow Lucius to further his never born plans anyway....

[Mike Wallace]

1 hour ago, Mason said:

The Guild owns the two legal newspapers in town.

Just have Nellie push through an article about Arcanists doing terrible things and skip to the end result without having to deal with all the logistics of a false flag operation.  

The Arcanists know the Tattler is a Guild rag, they wouldn't believe it. 

But if they believe the information is real and wasn't meant to fall into their hands, they are doomed! Expose the truth and you shatter the faction into warring cells, each convinced the others are Guild operatives! Keep the truth, and the paranoia and disdain festers as you believe your cause is just another tentacle of the many-armed Guild octopus! You turn on your own people, rumors poison trust and erode loyalty, and in the end they will eat themselves alive! 

[Haagrum]

41 minutes ago, Mike Wallace said:

The Arcanists know the Tattler is a Guild rag, they wouldn't believe it. 

But if they believe the information is real and wasn't meant to fall into their hands, they are doomed! Expose the truth and you shatter the faction into warring cells, each convinced the others are Guild operatives! Keep the truth, and the paranoia and disdain festers as you believe your cause is just another tentacle of the many-armed Guild octopus! You turn on your own people, rumors poison trust and erode loyalty, and in the end they will eat themselves alive! 

Lucius wouldn't be inclined to genuinely help the Guild. It aids him, and his queen, to keep the humans as divided as possible. In 3E, the Neverborn have Marcus for an inside ear on the Arcanists, and Lucius in a lesser but still influential position in the Guild. Titania probably thinks she can cut a deal with the Grave Spirit (she's done it before), although the Resurrectionists themselves may be a problem. Zoraida can have the Bayou folk, it's not as though Titania or Nekima take them seriously as a threat anyway...

If anything, Titania's Neverborn are probably more concerned with the Outcasts (especially Barbaros, Tara and the Viktorias) and Ten Thunders as wild cards and players beyond their direct influence. Keeping the different human factions weakened by their own conflicts doesn't take much effort - and it's not as though the Autumn Queen didn't already return to power over the Neverborn by doing exactly the same thing, without the same advantages.

Heck, who's to say that Lucius wasn't nudged into pushing Lady Justice after Nicodem? Yes, the Thunders had their motivations, but Lucius would've known that removing either of those two works to the Neverborn's advantage. As it played out, there's even a bonus - Lady Justice will never truly trust him, but he's at least proven himself a reliable ally of convenience for her, which could help limit the Resurrectionist threat.

[Bakuriel]

I think the fact that Toni actually sold Ramos to the guild, regardless of her reasoning, would do way more damage than a half baked false flag.

[Haagrum]

2 hours ago, Bakuriel said:

I think the fact that Toni actually sold Ramos to the guild, regardless of her reasoning, would do way more damage than a half baked false flag.

Unless the average M&SU member is not fully aware of the more destructive Arcanists' connections to their movement. They dislike the Guild enough as it is, but if Ramos is publicly exposed as being the head of a criminal syndicate which engages in terrorism (which is in turn used as the justification for further Guild crackdowns which affect the miners and steamfitters), it might not be quite as damaging.

Besides which, Marlowe knows that he can hold that little story over Ironsides for leverage if he really needs it. Toni cares far more about people than her own power, unlike Ramos. That makes her easier for the Guild to work with and to manipulate, within limits, than someone like Ramos.

[retnab]

4 hours ago, Haagrum said:

Unless the average M&SU member is not fully aware of the more destructive Arcanists' connections to their movement.

A couple Chronicles' ago there was a short story about a group of M&SU folk who were basically arguing about whether Ironsides or Kaeris is the "true" leader of the Arcanists anymore, and it ends about how you'd expect.  Canonically there's already a bit of a mess going on inside the ranks.

[Mike Wallace]

20 hours ago, retnab said:

A couple Chronicles' ago there was a short story about a group of M&SU folk who were basically arguing about whether Ironsides or Kaeris is the "true" leader of the Arcanists anymore, and it ends about how you'd expect.  Canonically there's already a bit of a mess going on inside the ranks.

Someone find the author, he's a genius and a creative mastermind. 

[dalezzz]

No separate entry’s for genbu and pasha ? 😩 really pleased to see this list though , got a whole load of masterless non theme models now ..... might have to buy some new masters.    Buying Zipp so I can field Johan and midnight stalker (I know I don’t actually need Zipp) seems weird though

[Jesy Blue]

With Totems now part of the leader buy in, where does that leave the generic Faction totems?

Essence of Power is an Elemental, Old Cranky is a Big Hat, Primordial Magic is Savage, Graveyard/Restless Spirit is Revenant, and Kamaitachi an Oni... leaving The Governor's Proxy, now Guild Representative, and Malifaux Child both unaffiliated Versitile models. 

Will they lose the Rare 1 status?  Will they still be (mostly) Peons?  Can I summon them now?  So many excited questions!

[Gesuma]

Could we get a hint at how many of each model we are allowed?

The Demo versions of cards for Rasputina and Marcus showed (3) on every single minion if I recall right... hopefully that has changed and is not normal for other masters. It would be a little sad if I cannot put down 9 Ice Gamin if I wanted to in M3E.

Can we use "unlimited" amounts of each Golems (elementals)?

How about Ronins? I got 9 of those as well :( 

Please give a hint if there still is a plan to limit the number of minions we can put into a crew.

[yool1981]

On 12/19/2018 at 9:09 PM, dalezzz said:

No separate entry’s for genbu and pasha ? 😩 really pleased to see this list though , got a whole load of masterless non theme models now ..... might have to buy some new masters.    Buying Zipp so I can field Johan and midnight stalker (I know I don’t actually need Zipp) seems weird though

The Infamous keyword is not very coherent indeed at first glance...

Perhaps there will be a fluff explanation and I m curious to know what the models of this theme have in common.

[retnab]

1 minute ago, yool1981 said:

The Infamous keyword is not very coherent indeed at first glance...

Perhaps there will be a fluff explanation and I m curious to know what the models of this theme have in common.

I'm guessing their theme is more or less "we want the world to know our (my) name(s)!"   But Zipp's airship is called the Infamous IIRC so it's probably just that Zipp hired them onto his crew somehow?

[Gnomezilla]

INFAMY!*

Johan is already known as the renegade steamfitter to a faction and a half beyond his own (anyone even vaguely aware of the M&SU). The Midnight Stalker simply would like to be. I am giggling that Zipp basically out-flourished Wong and impressed the gremlin wrestlers so much they all defected. Or jumped ship, as it were.  And I guess Merris actually likes being serenaded with “Fat-Bottomed Girls” from the airship loudspeakers.

 

*of course you need the exaggerated inflection!

[Jesy Blue]

Speaking of Infamous, The First Mate was downgraded from Henchmen!?

[Bago]

The more I read about 3rd the more annoyed I get. I don't like that they initially said all models are usable from existing editions. This is incorrect I play one faction only and don't want to buy a second faction in order to use models I already have that were for my faction The Guild. The keywords also won't let me hire them to my faction as they use a different keyword not available to my current master options and no * is going to help as they are no longer my faction. So unless something is done to fix the now locked out models I will totally give up on 3rd edition. Either give me dead man hand cards to return them to my faction or do something to fix this bad mistake. I will say now and clearly I care little for the games lore and story changes, I care for the game I play. I don't want to throw out models that have become obsolete due to bad decisions.

[theamazingmrg]

42 minutes ago, Bago said:

The more I read about 3rd the more annoyed I get. I don't like that they initially said all models are usable from existing editions. This is incorrect I play one faction only and don't want to buy a second faction in order to use models I already have that were for my faction The Guild. The keywords also won't let me hire them to my faction as they use a different keyword not available to my current master options and no * is going to help as they are no longer my faction. So unless something is done to fix the now locked out models I will totally give up on 3rd edition. Either give me dead man hand cards to return them to my faction or do something to fix this bad mistake. I will say now and clearly I care little for the games lore and story changes, I care for the game I play. I don't want to throw out models that have become obsolete due to bad decisions.

So, to paraphrase, the only way you would be happy with Third Edition is if your partiular crew that you have models for would remain unchanged? I assume from your rant that you're a McCabe player running Mounted Guards and/or Guild Hounds? In which case, if  you didn't want a second faction, then perhaps a dual-faction Master wasn't the best choice in the first place?  They were always going to be the worst affected by an Edition change.

 

I f my guess is correct, then Dashel will be able to use the Guards and Hounds in Guild, and the Wastrels will be perfectly usable in Ten Thunders (and I imagine will get some tasty new models to boost them).  I wouldn't rule it out until you see what the future options are.

 

If my guess isn't correct, then I can't see what the issue is.  Only McCabe and McMourning are affected by the faction changes, and McMourning generally preferred Resser models anyway, as far as I can tell.  3rd Edition will be a new Edition.  Even if everything had remained in the same faction as 2nd Edition there would be no guarantee that the models would play the same way, so a new Edition was always going to bring changes that required adapting to.  Malifaux is a game with a low model count, so even if some models became unusable for the way you want to play, it would probably only take a purchase or two to make them usable again.  There are other, larger game companies out there that have made far worse decisions during Edition changes.  Personally I like what I'm seeing for 3rd Edition (and I'm also a Guild player who owns McCabe) and am happy to embrace the change.  If you aren't, then so be it, but I can't help but think the only person missing out in that case would be you.

[Bago]

3 hours ago, theamazingmrg said:

So, to paraphrase, the only way you would be happy with Third Edition is if your partiular crew that you have models for would remain unchanged? I assume from your rant that you're a McCabe player running Mounted Guards and/or Guild Hounds? In which case, if  you didn't want a second faction, then perhaps a dual-faction Master wasn't the best choice in the first place?  They were always going to be the worst affected by an Edition change.

 

I f my guess is correct, then Dashel will be able to use the Guards and Hounds in Guild, and the Wastrels will be perfectly usable in Ten Thunders (and I imagine will get some tasty new models to boost them).  I wouldn't rule it out until you see what the future options are.

I liked having options, this has been reduced/removed by preventing me from using Wastrels or Sidar under any Guild master. Then there was Mcabe the fastest moving master for Guild with an interesting upgrade passing. When I get a game I don't think of future proofing my current force because it might change with an edition. Yes I want rule fixes and adjustments to fix broken/OP models/rules but not at the cost of losing models, this effects 5 models I own and is frustrating.