Alpha Crawler

[Thisendup]

 

I've tried using it against other enemy titans, it dies pretty quick.

Tried to use it to take out squads, dies pretty quick.

For the amount of script I'm having a hard time justifying the Alpha.

The main attack is low strength with a trigger that only provides a little help if he's covered in reinforcement tokens.

Armor is not great at 11, my opponents very rarely do not inflict at least 1 damage.

I think another squad of Speckled crawlers or some Eels would be better.

 

How do all of you use it?

[-Loki-]

Haven’t used it but I’m looking at Overeager (+2 to all acting values during its activation), Roiling Innards (extra ranged attack at Av 8 (thanks to Overeager) that flips target from Glory) and Crushing Hands (Av 8 melee attack that Champions can’t pass wounds off to nearby units) for my usual build.

It’s definitely worth getting Reinforcement tokens on it. A Commander with Relics of Ancient Malifaux should make it it’s first priority, same with gobbling an egg clutch and/or grabbing a token off some speckled Crawlers. Reinforcement tokens are life for it.

That’s Hordes in a nutshell though. Get those reinforcement tokens down.

[Siwy]

I think he is great mobile tool to take out enemy flanking forces. With 25" (definitly overeager) threat range and good AV while he can take care of 1 squad/small fireteams in maybe 2 turns. But as always with RTs avaiable. 

Im also not impresed by alpha crawler. But i think he has some potential.

[Clement]

One thing I'm having to wrap my brain around is just how durable a lot of stuff is.  Typically a really great single attack will kill maybe one fireteam of a squad.  It will *not* kill anyone carrying assets.  Volume of attacks ends up being much more important in terms of getting dudes off the table.

If I was going all in on the Alpha crawler, I'd definitely want him to have Massive Arms and Over Eager at least.   Either of the body slot assets would do fine I guess, but you'll want to pick on non-titans if you want to make use of them, since you'll likely either be out of range or engaging whatever you're attacking.  If you plan to go titan hunting, toughness is likely almost as good, and possibly cheaper.

Lastly, get that boy reinforcement tokens.  They help him attach assets, they help keep him alive out of turn, and they help him hit things better.   They're amazing!

[Nukemouse]

If the alpha crawler has reinforcement tokens on it it's quite a bit harder to kill than regular fireteams, its armor means not all attacks will actually hit and almost none will do more than 1 damage, those that do you can flip an asset, then use a reinforcement token to flip it back rather than spending the reinforcement token directly. I think it will pair well with the Horomotangi + Frenzy who can probably give it 5 reinforcement tokens on the first turn, have it kill an egg clutch to glory and it might get as many as 7! It would then take an extreme number of resources to take down, especially if you are using armored whelks in your army so placing pinned tokens isn't an option.

I mean you could also do this to the Devouring Eel, but it only gets one attack, even if it is a nice one.

[Wombats]

Having my first game with Hordes Wednesday so grain of salt but reading through the rules I am picking up a subtle theme of eating your own dudes and snaffling Reinforcement tokens by the handful before venturing out.  

Feels very December.  Chow down!

I'm proxying some Nameless from Mantic's Deadzone as Spotted Crawlers - I'm wondering if the starter set doesn't need them to operate the Alpha Crawler properly?

[-Loki-]

5 hours ago, Wombats said:

Having my first game with Hordes Wednesday so grain of salt but reading through the rules I am picking up a subtle theme of eating your own dudes and snaffling Reinforcement tokens by the handful before venturing out.  

Feels very December.  Chow down!

I'm proxying some Nameless from Mantic's Deadzone as Spotted Crawlers - I'm wondering if the starter set doesn't need them to operate the Alpha Crawler properly?

Allegiance box already has a couple of ways to hand them out without Speckled Crawlers. Stormsiren with Relics of Ancient Malifaux and Karkinoi laying Egg Clutches. Speckled Crawlers are autopilot for handing them out, but it's important to remember they're pretty crap in combat. You're buying them as a tarpit and/or to hand out Reinforcement tokens. Putting them in the Allegiance box would have made it easier to hand out those tokens, but as a standalone force it would have completely lacked teeth. Replacing the Karkinoi removes your shock troops, replacing the Striped Skulkers removes your basic melee grunts.

The Allegiance box works fine with those two sources as long as you properly utilize tide pools (remember you get to place 3 with the Stormsiren, and she can summon more when in Glory. That's a lot of -2 to opponent Av's).

[Pergli]

Honestly not sold on the alpha crawler anymore and maybe its because i'm playing him wrong.

1. KE - Shoots him with grenadiers (if they are in glory he becomes useless fairly quickly)
2. Aby - I can't justify bringing a Df 3 model against an army that has to beat you by 6 to flip to glory AND gets a ton of cards. Seems like they could just take pot shots at it until their entire army is in glory.
3. BM - Haven't had any problems in this match up but not sure if its worth 10 points still.

Also, I think overeager might be a trap. Sure you can get +2 to your AV when you charge but you're going to charge maybe once or twice a game depending on if you get tarpitted? It might be better to take the leg upgrade where you can place within 6 and get a melee attack. If you kill whatever you charged in the previous turn, you can take focused effort to gain another reinforcement token, then place 6 inches and swing on whatever you can. Also, this means you're going to get another attack which the overeager upgrade doesn't give you and it can allow you to place away to grab objectives. This is my current line of thinking for the next time I try it out but i'm still not sold on him. 

[-Loki-]

1. Sounds like you're not getting enough Reinforcement tokens on it.

2. Still a gamble. Beating you by 6 at Df 3 still requires a bad flip from you and a good flip from them. With no guaranteed hand and any hand you get coming at the cost of Tactics tokens there's no guaranteed cheat to get the margin. Even if they do, they're wasting their hand for that or they're going to risk not shooting the rest of your stuff at the chance of glorying their army? Go ahead. Let me advance and take objectives.

3. Not sure where the issue is. If you haven't had problems and you don't think it's worth the points, chances are you're not using it aggressively enough.

The difference between Overeager and Powerful Legs comes down to playstyle. Overeager gives you a much better chance to kill what you charge, which gives you a better chance to charge again. Also it's kinda hard to tarpit Hordes when their most common commander can Lure at 24", and send the Lured target in different directions.

[Clement]

On 12/26/2018 at 1:12 PM, Pergli said:

Honestly not sold on the alpha crawler anymore and maybe its because i'm playing him wrong.

1. KE - Shoots him with grenadiers (if they are in glory he becomes useless fairly quickly)
2. Aby - I can't justify bringing a Df 3 model against an army that has to beat you by 6 to flip to glory AND gets a ton of cards. Seems like they could just take pot shots at it until their entire army is in glory.
3. BM - Haven't had any problems in this match up but not sure if its worth 10 points still.

Also, I think overeager might be a trap. Sure you can get +2 to your AV when you charge but you're going to charge maybe once or twice a game depending on if you get tarpitted? It might be better to take the leg upgrade where you can place within 6 and get a melee attack. If you kill whatever you charged in the previous turn, you can take focused effort to gain another reinforcement token, then place 6 inches and swing on whatever you can. Also, this means you're going to get another attack which the overeager upgrade doesn't give you and it can allow you to place away to grab objectives. This is my current line of thinking for the next time I try it out but i'm still not sold on him. 

I won't lie, Grenadiers are kind of ridiculous murderers if you let them fire with impunity.  As an Abyssinia player, I'm generally at a loss for great methods to deal with them.  So far my best results seem to be 'run as fast as possible and try to engage them as much as possible, while keeping anything with bad defense (*anything at all*) VERY clear of them' 

[spooky_squirrel]

28 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

2. Still a gamble. Beating you by 6 at Df 3 still requires a bad flip from you and a good flip from them. With no guaranteed hand and any hand you get coming at the cost of Tactics tokens there's no guaranteed cheat to get the margin. Even if they do, they're wasting their hand for that or they're going to risk not shooting the rest of your stuff at the chance of glorying their army? Go ahead. Let me advance and take objectives.

3. Not sure where the issue is. If you haven't had problems and you don't think it's worth the points, chances are you're not using it aggressively enough.

The difference between Overeager and Powerful Legs comes down to playstyle. Overeager gives you a much better chance to kill what you charge, which gives you a better chance to charge again. Also it's kinda hard to tarpit Hordes when their most common commander can Lure at 24", and send the Lured target in different directions.

On point 2: as an Aby player, if I'm looking to go to Glory off of something that's Df 3, I will likely try to do it off of a Prototype Asset. Then I'm not counting on a margin, I'm reaping the benefit of a slightly wider range of Tomes that can succeed. The only time I shoot for the margin-to-glory is on uncontested checks that run against a fixed value. That said, I still need a Tome in hand that'll succeed against the flip or to flip a Tome that will succeed, or to use the 6 Tactics Token cost Stratagem that lets me Morale action for a guaranteed suit. In either case, every action and activation spent doing stuff like that is an action and activation that's not oriented to succeeding in the Operation.

On point 3: I've found that (especially once BM tarpits something) if I'm sinking points into a unit and not using it for its role, it's not points well spent. Whether it's 4 scrip/points for a Marauder with Toughness or 11 for Electrocutioners with Adjunct or 13 for Steel Legion with Adjunct: if I'm not using them for their role and deploying them well, it's scrip that's not well spent. It ends up not feeling worth the cost. In the case of the Alpha Crawler, aggression seems to be its purpose in life, so cram it down the center as a Distraction Carnifex while your other stuff maneuvers for the operation. Every bit of fire that it takes is something that's not killing Karkinoi, Egg Clutches, and gribblies that are trying to score or deny on Operation.

Regarding Tarpitting (and why I pulled Loki's remarks instead of commenting on the post Loki's responding to): I keep finding myself tarpitted because I haven't gotten used to the way that disengagement actively works. So it's largely my own doing that I forget that out-of-activation movement and non-standard movement doesn't invoke disengaging strikes. You've got the Siren's Lure, the Frenzy's nips, and can do things to the opposing force to give your Alpha Crawler the breathing room to charge again. One quick and dirty combination is using the Frenzy to nip the Alpha Crawler out of engagement, then using coordinated strike to Rush the Alpha Crawler right back in. It's the same kind of jackhammer routine I'd use with the Arcane Emissary and Mei Feng in Malifaux (2E). The Siren can do similar things as well, just from a safer distance.

5 minutes ago, Clement said:

I won't lie, Grenadiers are kind of ridiculous murderers if you let them fire with impunity.  As an Abyssinia player, I'm generally at a loss for great methods to deal with them.  So far my best results seem to be 'run as fast as possible and try to engage them as much as possible, while keeping anything with bad defense (*anything at all*) VERY clear of them' 

And yeah.. this.. rereading the Grenadiers' stats, they're brutal if they're allowed to shoot. Fortunately for GH they have speed and shenanigans that they can use to get something into those Grenadiers to keep them from doing their Titan-hunting job. I'm just a little bit jealous about that, because I have to sacrifice something that would normally be running scenario to them to keep them from tearing apart my armor.

Funny thing though, over in the KE there's a thread about how to handle GH and close combat. It's amusing the level of paranoia that exist between the two. Tells me that something was done right with regards to balance

[-Loki-]

23 hours ago, Clement said:

I won't lie, Grenadiers are kind of ridiculous murderers if you let them fire with impunity.  As an Abyssinia player, I'm generally at a loss for great methods to deal with them.  So far my best results seem to be 'run as fast as possible and try to engage them as much as possible, while keeping anything with bad defense (*anything at all*) VERY clear of them' 

Luckily Hordes players have the Tidal Scepter. Teleporting The Frenzy or Horomatangi into the Grenadiers will finish them.

[Thisendup]

Maybe I just have bad luck, but the Abysinia players I play against have most of their forces in glory by turn 2 if not turn 1. A 6 point margin on any flip is actually really, really easy, since they only need 1 on a squad of 3 plus adjunct to flip that unit to glory and so on. With how easily they draw cards cheating is rarely a concern either.

I have found that sending the crawler into combat with another titan is helpful. If you can get it into the Aby titan before it flips to glory it does not have a melee attack and you can pin it in place and beat it down.

[Pergli]

On 12/31/2018 at 9:58 PM, Thisendup said:

Maybe I just have bad luck, but the Abysinia players I play against have most of their forces in glory by turn 2 if not turn 1. A 6 point margin on any flip is actually really, really easy, since they only need 1 on a squad of 3 plus adjunct to flip that unit to glory and so on. With how easily they draw cards cheating is rarely a concern either.

I have found that sending the crawler into combat with another titan is helpful. If you can get it into the Aby titan before it flips to glory it does not have a melee attack and you can pin it in place and beat it down.

Yeah, i'm realizing that it doesn't matter if I have the titan on the board or not for their glory so I may need to try it out. 

[unknownuser65]

How r u pining it down? 1 tactic token and it moves out of combat. I honestly hate that rule.

I feel that you just cannot tangle up anything. Maybe yarazy can once they are in glory and only after loosing their first fireteam.

And it is only 1 per unit and not fireteam. So it seems you r seldomly able to entangle the opposing forces continiously.

Worst i have seen was engaging electrocutioners. 1.21 gigawatt just grills everything. Plus a shaken token for each affected fireteam. If you opponent bought the cheat a 15 stratagem you will be hit quite hard. 

Abyssinia hit so damn hard.

[spooky_squirrel]

On 1/6/2019 at 7:29 PM, Pergli said:

Yeah, i'm realizing that it doesn't matter if I have the titan on the board or not for their glory so I may need to try it out. 

This is what I was getting at for Aby. Between our Allegiance ability and our Prototype Assets, we can potentially have three units in Glory on our first activation: Prince Unathi triggering Field Tests on two units, with at least one of his own Morale actions flipping/cheating a 10 in (fixed target, puts Unathi in Glory), and the units' use of the Prototype succeeding with a Tome.

Don't worry about making it easy on us to get to Glory. If your local Aby player is having trouble getting into Glory, they're either having abysmally bad luck or not enough practice at the shenanigans available, causing them to focus on things like trying to get that 6 margin when a Tome will do.

Instead, look at what it can do to support your effort for the Operation. Related:

On 2/2/2019 at 2:57 AM, unknownuser65 said:

How r u pining it down? 1 tactic token and it moves out of combat. I honestly hate that rule.

Tactics Tokens aren't an unlimited resource. Every Tactics Token spent for moving a unit out of engagement is a Tactics Token that is not available to work the Operation. If the only thing that your Alpha Crawler does is force me to spend a very limited resource on something other than scoring VP, then the Alpha Crawler is doing something important. If I don't have those Tactics Tokens available to purchase Stratagems, I don't get to do the things I'm planning or counting on, which is also a good thing for my opponent.
It works because it either costs a Tactics Token or an action during another Unit's activation to get it out of engagement so that it can do what it was hired to do. Both of those things (TT, actions) are extremely limited and precious.

So if you hired the Alpha Crawler to keep me from doing what I want as an Aby player, cramming it into the face(s) of things that are supposed to be moving around scoring or hanging back shooting, you're getting your hiring scrip's worth out of it. Remember: the game is five turns. Each Unit gets 5 Orders over the course of the game (barring Stratagems), non-commander getting 5 Actions from the Advance Order over the course of a game. With Stratagems and some abilities on the table, I can get more actions in one way or another, but I have to spend the Tactics Tokens to get those Stratagems or use an Action to grant an action to another unit. I can only generate so many Tactics Tokens per turn (6 base in two commander game, but the more I can get per turn, the less I end up being able to with them due to what I have on the table), which are planned to be used for Control Hand (as Aby not as vital), Stratagems, and interacting with Objectives.

Every reflip or disengagement paid for with a Tactics Token is at the cost of interacting with Objective markers or paying for a Stratagem that will grant me additional actions. Every Action I'm spending on something other than scoring the Operation or denying you the ability to score is to your advantage.

[unknownuser65]

Hmmm. Probably I m Not playing at maximum scenario. But up to now it was my experience that my opponents always had enough tokens to disengage.

And Disengaging killing the whole unit and scoring the next turn is no issue for them. I just did not feel, that the tokens were a limited resource.

[spooky_squirrel]

55 minutes ago, unknownuser65 said:

Hmmm. Probably I m Not playing at maximum scenario. But up to now it was my experience that my opponents always had enough tokens to disengage.

And Disengaging killing the whole unit and scoring the next turn is no issue for them. I just did not feel, that the tokens were a limited resource.

I play Aby, and I'm always feeling like I don't have enough Tactics Tokens. I've even restructured my initial hiring thoughts to enable me to get more Tactics Tokens by hook and crook if necessary.

Yes, the Electrocutioners are brutal if they get into Glory and get rolling. The Stratagem that gives a 15 and all suits costs 4 Tactics Tokens (Unwaivering Resolve). Machinations (Aby-only Stratagem that gives my units more flexibility and effectiveness for a Turn) costs 6 Tactics Tokens. At best I can get a 2 Token discount for being behind on VP and having the Lord of Steel (Tactics value of 1, restricting my Tactics Token draw during the turn). Being Earth Allegiance, I'm also likely to be bringing Medic!, Expert Training, Lion Among the Gazelles, and Behind Enemy Lines. If I bring those, I'm not bringing Overclocked and other Stratagems that might see some return on investment.

Assuming a two Commander Game with Lord of Steel and Prince Unathi, I get 6 Tactics Tokens at the start of a Turn, to use in buy Stratagems and cards. During the turn, I get 3 Tactics Tokens total for activating both Commanders at least once. There are other things I can do to get Tactics Tokens, but these are the things that are effectively guaranteed on Turn 1. On Turn 1, UR costs 3 Tactics Tokens. Say I spend that. That gives me, for the cost of 3 Tactics Tokens a one time use cheat card that's better than even the Red Joker. To use it, I have to be able to cheat. To make it worth while, it needs to be on a duel of consequence. I might need to have a Tactics Token set aside to force a reflip, just in case that duel happens to have a Black Joker come up on the normal flip.
If I want to use it to maximum effect on my Electrocutioners, I also need to have two cards already in hand. I cannot guarantee that during play, so I might want to buy those two cards up front, just in case. Gives me some flexibility in case I need to Cheat Fate in order to make things happen. Especially since I need those Electrocutioners in Glory to maximize their lethality.
That's 6 Tactics Tokens accounted for, just for that Stratagem with that unit. That means that I'm counting on Unathi's and the Lord's Tactics Tokens to cover anything else that comes up, including scoring/denying objectives and disengaging from contact. I'm not thinking about Coordinated Strikes here/now because I'm usually trying to keep those tied to Commander-set-up plays, which don't require the Token.

If you force me to spend those not-yet-in-hand Tokens getting my Dreadnought or Mechanized Infantry out of melee so that they can shoot stuff, I don't have those tokens available to score on Objectives. If I don't spend those Tokens getting my Dreadnought or Mechanized Infantry out of melee, they aren't able to do the job I hired them for. It's a lose-lose scenario for me--one that I have to account for even before the game starts. Also: because they're not yet in hand, you end up forcing the order in which I activate my stuff just so that I can have at least one in hand in order to disengage in the first place.

I know that it doesn't seem like much to lose a turn of scoring when elite troops in Aby can potentially score the following turn, but let's widen the scope a bit. You've got 10 scrip in Titan and Assets charging in and tying up a portion of my forces, forcing me to respond to it. That leaves you with 37-40 scrip in other Units and Assets (depending on whether you have Horo or not) to play to the Operation. If you're running The Frenzy or Horo, there's another 2-3 scrip being used to keep me responding to what you're doing, leaving you with still more than 30 scrip in resources working towards the Operation. If you picked your target well, you're tying up 8-10+ scrip worth of forces that cannot reliably fight back and forcing me to respond with elements that can more reliably fight back, potentially tying up half of my forces or more in a fight at my own deployment zone. I've run into this scenario with Gory doing exactly this sort of thing where she ends up in the middle of my guns, forcing me to respond to her instead of the rest of the Cult.
Every turn I'm putting resources into dealing with the Alpha Crawler being in my business, including Tactics Tokens, is a turn that I'm not scoring. Hordes' attrition play means that they're more likely to score more points later in the game than Abyssinia by virtue of being able to bring back their workhorse elements and keep the pressure on. Once you kill one of my shock troop squads, it's gone. With the listed Stratagems, the only thing I can bring back is Bosotho Cavalry or Crow Runners.

I need to be putting pressure early on because eliminating GH Squads doesn't stop them from being able to affect the battlefield later in the game, so I need to be pushing for board position and VP scoring/denial early on to make up for the fact that I won't have either later. So the rest of your Company having the ability to maneuver and potentially even score early because my attention is sunk into that Alpha Crawler ends up giving you an early momentum edge that's hard for me to take back.
If I fall behind on VP against Hordes and have nothing to show for it, I end up feeling like I need a turn in which I have Gloried Electrocutioners at full strength, Unwaivering Resolve and a Red Joker in hand, a full Control Hand, and Expert Training and Machinations ready to drop, as well as Tactics Tokens to spend on Objective markers just to catch up and get enough of a margin to not fall behind again.

Note: it's not what is really required, but that's the sense of pressure that comes with a small elite crew against the greater numbers of a horde. What it comes down to (from my perspective as an Aby player) is that your Karkinoi, Striped Skulkers, and Yarazi all do a lot of work when they're allowed to. The Karkinoi are part of the whole Glory Engine for Hordes in addition to be extremely hard hitting and hard to deal with when they get Reinforcement Tokens and Gloried. Striped Skulkers are a pain to remove in the first place, and can pop up anywhere you want them even if I do succeed in wiping them out, allowing them to control board position. Yarazi are fast moving Objective runners. If these units are able to get into position without my being able to do something about it, they're going to win you the game and they don't stay dead. I need to deal with them, and if I'm already behind, I need to deal with them in a massive hurry and hope that I have enough steam left over to try and get those VP.

That's the strength of Hordes: being able to put units like those three right back into play after they drain a significant amount of resources from your opponent: Actions, Activations, whole Units, cards, Tactics Tokens because they are too effective at what they do to be ignored.
Then you put an Alpha Crawler in my face so that I have to ignore them for at least a turn.

[Tris]

@spooky_squirrel

To optimize the mentioned build, play at least one medal of honour and thrace, gives you +3 tactic tokens when you glory her with 2 cards, which you'll get back using engineers, hand held recording device and unathis "prototype command" (twice, so 2 cards and 2 shots) on a unit of electrocutioners who are equipped with a flare gun and thus should be able to take a pot shot at whatever.

Just so that the math for tokens/cards is more in your favour  

[spooky_squirrel]

17 minutes ago, Tris said:

@spooky_squirrel

To optimize the mentioned build, play at least one medal of honour and thrace, gives you +3 tactic tokens when you glory her with 2 cards, which you'll get back using engineers, hand held recording device and unathis "prototype command" (twice, so 2 cards and 2 shots) on a unit of electrocutioners who are equipped with a flare gun and thus should be able to take a pot shot at whatever.

Just so that the math for tokens/cards is more in your favour  

The trade-offs on that are what I've been thinking about with templated builds. I could conceivably get 8-9 Tactics Tokens a turn (Unathi + Medal Of Honor and Hand Held Recording Device gives 3, Kassa with envoy and her KE Asset gives 4 but cuts off bringing Thrace/alternatively Kassa with HHRD and Envoy in Thrace, and Computational Brain on Dreadnought gets me all the way to 8, MoH on Kassa brings it to 9), but it cuts off my options a bit to a lot depending on Operation and opposing force and it counts on those Assets staying up.
If I bring Lord of Steel, that's one less Tactics value to draw with, but discounted prices... and getting him MoH makes him less resilient and less capable of running Objectives for me.

It also means that by inflicting some damage, not even lethal amounts, just some damage, my GH opponent can bring my Tactics Token draw right back down or cut off my card management. Cutting off my card management means that I can't just shrug off Tactics Tokens for cards, and Thrace means a little more cost up front to make things happen.

So while I can conceivably get more Tactics Tokens and thus be able to do more breaking away from things like the Alpha Crawler, I do so at force composition expense and greater risk of being interfered with by a canny GH player, because I've now tied up 13-14 Scrip (little over a quarter of my available total) in Assets that will be shared between 3 Champions, a Dreadnought, and 2-3 squads. Ideally I want to be a bit lower than that, even if only 10-11, as that gives me enough room to bring in things that will get work done on the battlefield--because the money sink of up to 24 scrip (w/ Dreadnought and Thrace cost) means that half of my force is dedicated to getting Tactics Tokens and managing the card draw (need 2-3 squads for the 2-3 Engineers for more card draw to make up for card use).

Instead of, you know, the Operation. I end up missing out on bringing specialist Squads and Fireteams that do lots of work because I'm counting on Tactics Tokens to carry the day.

Which makes life easier for the GH player when it comes to target priority with the Alpha Crawler. It goes after the things that might complete the operation, while Karkinoi and either Horo or the Frenzy go into the things with the Assets and breaks all the Assets. In the meantime, their Striped Skulkers and Yarazi are running objectives unmolested because.. well.. I don't have all the Unit tools I need.

[Tris]

5 hours ago, spooky_squirrel said:

The trade-offs on that are what I've been thinking about with templated builds. I could conceivably get 8-9 Tactics Tokens a turn (Unathi + Medal Of Honor and Hand Held Recording Device gives 3, Kassa with envoy and her KE Asset gives 4 but cuts off bringing Thrace/alternatively Kassa with HHRD and Envoy in Thrace, and Computational Brain on Dreadnought gets me all the way to 8, MoH on Kassa brings it to 9), but it cuts off my options a bit to a lot depending on Operation and opposing force and it counts on those Assets staying up.
If I bring Lord of Steel, that's one less Tactics value to draw with, but discounted prices... and getting him MoH makes him less resilient and less capable of running Objectives for me.

It also means that by inflicting some damage, not even lethal amounts, just some damage, my GH opponent can bring my Tactics Token draw right back down or cut off my card management. Cutting off my card management means that I can't just shrug off Tactics Tokens for cards, and Thrace means a little more cost up front to make things happen.

So while I can conceivably get more Tactics Tokens and thus be able to do more breaking away from things like the Alpha Crawler, I do so at force composition expense and greater risk of being interfered with by a canny GH player, because I've now tied up 13-14 Scrip (little over a quarter of my available total) in Assets that will be shared between 3 Champions, a Dreadnought, and 2-3 squads. Ideally I want to be a bit lower than that, even if only 10-11, as that gives me enough room to bring in things that will get work done on the battlefield--because the money sink of up to 24 scrip (w/ Dreadnought and Thrace cost) means that half of my force is dedicated to getting Tactics Tokens and managing the card draw (need 2-3 squads for the 2-3 Engineers for more card draw to make up for card use).

Instead of, you know, the Operation. I end up missing out on bringing specialist Squads and Fireteams that do lots of work because I'm counting on Tactics Tokens to carry the day.

Which makes life easier for the GH player when it comes to target priority with the Alpha Crawler. It goes after the things that might complete the operation, while Karkinoi and either Horo or the Frenzy go into the things with the Assets and breaks all the Assets. In the meantime, their Striped Skulkers and Yarazi are running objectives unmolested because.. well.. I don't have all the Unit tools I need.

Of course, but I'm not saying that you have to go full ham on the Tactic tokens/cards, just that there's room for more without changing a given build too much - there's of course always the "if I do this he can do this" factor, but Thtace plus 1 asset and the medal is 5 scrip and gives me an additional attack/ reinforcement Token per turn while the medal doesn't take up an uber important slot on Unathi, and let's him inspire a Squad in addition to command it - and regarding what I've seen so far aby always has some Engineers floating around somewhere 

[Ozymandias79]

I'm liking the Alpha Crawler.  He doesn't have the damage output that some of the other Titans do, but they can't engage an enemy 25" away like he can.  He either needs to go after enemy flankers, or be the flanker for the GH.  You can deploy him in the middle and still threaten either flank turn 1.

[Thisendup]

That's an interesting idea, put it in the middle to look like you are going after a central target then sweep off to one side or the other.