Waldo's Weekly - Movement in M3E

[Kyle]

Hey Wyrdos!

This week, we found Waldo square dancing by himself behind some boxes in the warehouse. In his hand was a crumbled up ball of paper with some of the movement rules for Malifaux Third Edition. When confronted, he tried to hide under some alt models and refused to come out unless we were willing to talk about some of the changes to movement in M3E. So here we are!

Please remember, M3E is still in beta testing, so things might change between now and release. With that in mind, on to movement!

The most important change from M2E is perhaps one of the most intuitive: all movements count as movement. In retrospect, that seems obvious, but in M2E, certain types of movement didn’t count as moving, which tended to be just as confusing as it seems.

In M3E, all forms of movement – such as Place and Push – count as movement.

With that in mind, let’s take a look at some of these movement types.

Place

Place work more or less in the same way as M2E. When a model is placed somewhere, you just pick it up and put it in the appropriate space.

It’s also worth noting that “completely within” has been removed from the rulebook as a game term (save for during deployment, when models have to deploy completely within their Deployment Zones), which means that players will have one less term to remember during the game.

The most common source of Place effects in M3E is the Flight Ability:

Flight: When this model declares the Walk or Charge Action, instead of moving normally, this model may Place itself within X", where X is equal to this model's Mv. This model does not suffer Falling damage.

Flight gives models a great deal of maneuverability, as they can just shoot up into the sky and come back down somewhere nearby, bypassing any models and terrain that might be between those two points. This also allows flying models to easily move to and from elevated terrain, which makes them especially useful on boards that utilize a large number of buildings.

Push

Pushes are nothing more than movement that must be in a straight line. The biggest change that Pushes underwent is that they are now slowed by Severe Terrain, as opposed to ignoring terrain in M2E. This made Pushes extremely valuable on models and revalued the importance of both Severe Terrain and the Unimpeded Ability, which lets models ignore Severe Terrain. By making Pushes affected by Severe Terrain, we lowered their strength, which in turn allowed us to make better use of them.

Another important change with Pushes is that models cannot Push up vertical surfaces. This means that while models can still be Pushed off the edges of buildings, they can’t be Pushed up them. 

This is especially important since Charge movements are Pushes. This means that models standing atop a building can’t be Charged by models on the ground below… though that model could still climb up the building using a Walk Action and attack them normally.

This also means that barriers with Height – such as walls and fences – now prevent models from Charging over them, which makes them useful as roadblocks for ranged models.

Bury

Burying is back in M3E, albeit with its prickly, annoying corners sanded down to smoothness. Perhaps most importantly, Buried models still Activate, which means that they process things like the Poison Condition normally. This also means that models can have Abilities that trigger if they Activate while Buried. To get a glimpse into how this works, let’s take a look at a pair of Abilities on everyone’s favorite magician, Colette du Bois:

Fade Away: After this model is targeted by an enemy Attack Action, if this model is not Buried, it may discard a card and suffer 1 damage. If it does so, this model is Buried and the Action fails.

Showstopper: At the start of this model's Activation, if it is Buried, Unbury it within 3" of a friendly model or friendly Scheme Marker. After this model Unburies for any reason, every enemy model within 4 gains Distracted +1.

Needless to say, this makes her quite difficult to pin down (or to keep Buried)!

The second biggest change to Buried is a “safety latch.” If a model is subject to a Bury effect but can’t be placed (for instance, if there’s no room within 3” of a friendly model or friendly Scheme Marker for Colette to Unbury), then the owner of the model instead places it anywhere inside their Deployment Zone.  

These changes to the Bury mechanic have let us really nudge some models into fun places, such as Tara’s ability to summon models that just enter play Buried (much like one of Karina’s Upgrades allowed her to do in M2E).

Incorporeal

Finally, we come to Incorporeal, which has changed quite a bit since M2E:

Incorporeal:  Reduce all damage this model suffers from Attack Actions by 1, to a minimum of 0. This model ignores Terrain while moving and ignores the Hazardous Terrain Trait. This model may move through other models and vice versa.

The old “half damage” version of Incorporeal was more than a little bit awkward, and it made designing models awkward as well, as it could be entirely bypassed by Ca Actions… which are some of the best Actions in the game anyway, due to their general lack of the projectile icon ().

Since M3E does away with Ca Actions, it only seemed natural to give Incorporeal a facelift. Now, its damage reduction is very useful, as it protects ghostly models from most every attack without forcing us to give them greatly reduced Health to compensate. Most importantly, it still allows models to float through walls and other models just like you’d expect from a ghost.

So that’s it for movement! As you can see, a lot of M3E’s movement has been streamlined without sacrificing its flavor.

Next week, we’ll take a look at a flavor of another type.

How do you folks feel about pumpkin spice?

 

[solkan]

Salt:  The “safety latch” described for Unbury isn’t new to 3rd edition.  It’s the second paragraph in the M2E Unbury rules.

Edit, in case it’s needed:  👻  

[Gnomezilla]

Between pushes not being a ‘get out of terrain free’ card and charges BEING pushes, my head is going to pop.

And apple cider spices are delish but pumpkins are meh. *. s at the Carver*

[yool1981]

How does 3D movement work? Especially regarding Place effects and Incorporeal models.

27 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Flight: When this model declares the Walk or Charge Action, instead of moving normally, this model may Place itself within X", where X is equal to this model's Mv. This model does not suffer Falling damage. 

Do Flight and other place effects thus prevent a model to be targeted by disengaging strikes?

28 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Pushes are nothing more than movement that must be in a straight line. The biggest change that Pushes underwent is that they are now slowed by Severe Terrain, as opposed to ignoring terrain in M2E. This made Pushes extremely valuable on models and revalued the importance of both Severe Terrain and the Unimpeded Ability, which lets models ignore Severe Terrain. By making Pushes affected by Severe Terrain, we lowered their strength, which in turn allowed us to make better use of them.

This is a great change !

29 minutes ago, Kyle said:

This also means that barriers with Height – such as walls and fences – now prevent models from Charging over them, which makes them useful as roadblocks for ranged models.

This is a logical change.

However, if I understood the spoilers correctly, with 0" melee range being a thing, don't we run the risk of seeing ranged models behind walls become a bit overprotected?

32 minutes ago, Kyle said:

So that’s it for movement! As you can see, a lot of M3E’s movement has been streamlined without sacrificing its flavor. 

All these changes seem intuitive and very interesting.

[Mason]

7 minutes ago, yool1981 said:

Do Flight and other place effects thus prevent a model to be targeted by disengaging strikes?

Leaving combat is done via the Disengage Action. Flight doesn't give you a place on Disengage Actions, only Walk and Charge Actions.

8 minutes ago, yool1981 said:

However, if I understood the spoilers correctly, with 0" melee range being a thing, don't we run the risk of seeing ranged models behind walls become a bit overprotected?

Remember, Charge is only a 1 AP action now, so models can maneuver a bit with 1 AP and then Charge with their second AP, giving them movement and a free melee attack. They balance each other out.

[Fetid Strumpet]

So if I understand the implications of the new flying mechanic, flying models can apperate through the walls of enclosed buildings?

[Adran]

4 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

So if I understand the implications of the new flying mechanic, flying models can apperate through the walls of enclosed buildings?

Unless the terrain has some kind of "enclosed" trait it would appear they can.

[yool1981]

46 minutes ago, Mason said:

Remember, Charge is only a 1 AP action now, so models can maneuver a bit with 1 AP and then Charge with their second AP, giving them movement and a free melee attack. They balance each other out.

Thanks for the reminder. Perhaps my remark was due to a M2E mindset.

The shadow system seems to imply access to a lot more cover if I understood correctly so maybe shooters are not as strong as I fear they could be.

[lusciousmccabe]

1 hour ago, Gnomezilla said:

And apple cider spices are delish but pumpkins are meh. 

I find it so weird that there are parts of the world where cider isn't so synonymous with apples that you have to specifically mention it.

[Gnomezilla]

13 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

I find it so weird that there are parts of the world where cider isn't so synonymous with apples that you have to specifically mention it.

That might be a northeastern-US linguistic quirk that I can’t just say ‘cider’—I have lived where pear cider is the norm (delish but not spicy) but I always said ‘apple cider’ long before then. Though I felt the need to insert the word ‘alcoholic’ before ‘pear cider’...hmmm...no, the difference is that ‘apple cider’ is spiced (and seasonal, dammit) and ‘cider’ is not (but also alcoholic).

Speaking of linguistics...

1 hour ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

So if I understand the implications of the new flying mechanic, flying models can apperate through the walls of enclosed buildings?

APPARATE IS NOT A WORD!!! 😠 

[lusciousmccabe]

11 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

That might be a northeastern-US linguistic quirk that I can’t just say ‘cider’—I have lived where pear cider is the norm (delish but not spicy) but I always said ‘apple cider’ long before then. Though I felt the need to insert the word ‘alcoholic’ before ‘pear cider’...hmmm...no, the difference is that ‘apple cider’ is spiced (and seasonal, dammit) and ‘cider’ is not (but also alcoholic).

This is... even more confusing than I thought. 

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

So if I understand the implications of the new flying mechanic, flying models can apperate through the walls of enclosed buildings?

For the record, the mechanics limiting Flying in M2E is in the terrain rules (in Enclosed), not in Flight.

How easy is it to forget about Enclosed when explaining the M2E movement rules?

[SoylentRobot]

i had no idea Enclosed was even a thing

[Ludvig]

On 10/24/2018 at 4:23 PM, solkan said:

Salt:  The “safety latch” described for Unbury isn’t new to 3rd edition.  It’s the second paragraph in the M2E Unbury rules.

Edit, in case it’s needed:  👻  

It is new if it specifies it kicks in for any reason and not just unable to place "in the specified location". We won't have a m3e debate on wether Zipp is dead forever vs placed in his deployment zone if you kill all his gremlins.

[solkan]

17 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

It is new if it specifies it kicks in for any reason and not just unable to place "in the specified location". We won't have a m3e debate on wether Zipp is dead forever vs placed in his deployment zone if you kill all his gremlins.

Bah, it’s not new, just improved.   

Although I do appreciate it preempting that sort of argument in the new edition.

[Ludvig]

6 minutes ago, solkan said:

Bah, it’s not new, just improved.   

Although I do appreciate it preempting that sort of argument in the new edition.

Fair enough. I predict someone will find something ambiguous about ten minutes into the new edition.

[Ludvig]

Just to clarify my last post: I'm not having a go at any members of the design team but ambiguity seems to be pervasive in mini games. I've been in betas for Malifaux and we thought we had made a foolproof wording only to have people interpret it in three different ways almost instantly. 

[Da Git]

6 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Just to clarify my last post: I'm not having a go at any members of the design team but ambiguity seems to be pervasive in mini games. I've been in betas for Malifaux and we thought we had made a foolproof wording only to have people interpret it in three different ways almost instantly. 

That's Ok, I've cancelled the lynching mob and pitchforks

[Ludvig]

6 hours ago, Da Git said:

That's Ok, I've cancelled the lynching mob and pitchforks

I appreciate it, it was a madhouse last time.

It's mostly a clarification for the dev team. I've seen a lot of negativity in the release threads here and on awp. I think it starts to grate after a while when you are pouring time and effort into something and dozens/hundreds of people make remarks that can be read as putting you down. 

[Mortarion]

On 10/24/2018 at 3:53 PM, Kyle said:

 

Place

Place work more or less in the same way as M2E. When a model is placed somewhere, you just pick it up and put it in the appropriate space.

It’s also worth noting that “completely within” has been removed from the rulebook as a game term (save for during deployment, when models have to deploy completely within their Deployment Zones), which means that players will have one less term to remember during the game.

The most common source of Place effects in M3E is the Flight Ability:

Flight: When this model declares the Walk or Charge Action, instead of moving normally, this model may Place itself within X", where X is equal to this model's Mv. This model does not suffer Falling damage.

Flight gives models a great deal of maneuverability, as they can just shoot up into the sky and come back down somewhere nearby, bypassing any models and terrain that might be between those two points. This also allows flying models to easily move to and from elevated terrain, which makes them especially useful on boards that utilize a large number of buildings.

 

If I'm not mistaken, when you place a model in M2E you meassure from any point of the base to any point of the base, meaning that you effectively gain movement equal to the model's base when compared to normal movement where you meassure to the same point on the base. Is this true in M3E as well? The text seems to imply that it is, meaning that flight will actually boost a model's speed as well.

And overall good changes by the way. 

[WWHSD]

58 minutes ago, Mortarion said:

If I'm not mistaken, when you place a model in M2E you meassure from any point of the base to any point of the base, meaning that you effectively gain movement equal to the model's base when compared to normal movement where you meassure to the same point on the base. Is this true in M3E as well? The text seems to imply that it is, meaning that flight will actually boost a model's speed as well.

And overall good changes by the way. 

If the speed stat of models with Flight have been set with that in mind I don't expect that it would be a problem.

[Bakuriel]

On 10/26/2018 at 8:24 AM, Mortarion said:

If I'm not mistaken, when you place a model in M2E you meassure from any point of the base to any point of the base, meaning that you effectively gain movement equal to the model's base when compared to normal movement where you meassure to the same point on the base. Is this true in M3E as well? The text seems to imply that it is, meaning that flight will actually boost a model's speed as well.

And overall good changes by the way. 

If I have this correct, since push, place, and move all count as movement now, they would all fall under the rules for movement, namely same point to same point measurement. Fixing that quirk with place might be part of the reason it's classified as movement now. 

[Mortarion]

On 10/26/2018 at 6:24 PM, WWHSD said:

If the speed stat of models with Flight have been set with that in mind I don't expect that it would be a problem.

It would fix any balance issues, but it will be slightly strange that the Flight keyword changes how you meassure your movement, since you still use the Mv stat. But it's not at big thing.

 

On 10/27/2018 at 7:22 PM, Bakuriel said:

If I have this correct, since push, place, and move all count as movement now, they would all fall under the rules for movement, namely same point to same point measurement. Fixing that quirk with place might be part of the reason it's classified as movement now. 

It would be logical, but the text states that Place works more or less like in M2E and that "completely within" is gone.

[WWHSD]

On 10/27/2018 at 10:22 AM, Bakuriel said:

If I have this correct, since push, place, and move all count as movement now, they would all fall under the rules for movement, namely same point to same point measurement. Fixing that quirk with place might be part of the reason it's classified as movement now. 

From reading the preview it looks like place effects in M3E are going to work more or less like they do in M2E. Making them count as a move in M3E seems like it would just clean up some rules interactions and allow abilities and rules to affect all movement with place effects being kind of a loophole like they are in M2E.

[katadder]

On 10/24/2018 at 3:37 PM, Mason said:

Leaving combat is done via the Disengage Action. Flight doesn't give you a place on Disengage Actions, only Walk and Charge Actions.

 

However you can walk within melee range to change position (or to move closer if engaged but not in your range) so therefore you gain the place effects of flight, thus being able to place out of melee.

At least from a rules lawyering point of view, so I would suggest something in the flight text that disallows this: if already engaged flight does not come into play; or something along those lines