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Thedeadclaw

What's the appeal to the Guild?

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3 minutes ago, Butch said:

Nope. Chaos is a fictional evil. And demons are no people.

Space Marines are like many real world Armies have been: the spearhead in which wake an fascist regime unfolds. I cannot separate the soldiers from the regime they're fighting for. The first is total fiction the other has too much equivalents in the real world.

Yeah I can get that.

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Maybe that's part of the reason I could never play Seamus. I don't see him as cartoonishly evil, there's plenty real in there. He's just scum. Rasputina on the other hand has done some horrific stuff, but i find her whole thing grounded enough in fantasy that i don't really care as much.

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7 minutes ago, Primate said:

Maybe that's part of the reason I could never play Seamus. I don't see him as cartoonishly evil, there's plenty real in there. He's just scum. Rasputina on the other hand has done some horrific stuff, but i find her whole thing grounded enough in fantasy that i don't really care as much.

That's exactly how I feel about Seamus. I find him repulsive in ways no other master manages. Except maybe Leveticus, he's all manner of creepy.

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1 hour ago, Primate said:

Maybe that's part of the reason I could never play Seamus. I don't see him as cartoonishly evil, there's plenty real in there. He's just scum. Rasputina on the other hand has done some horrific stuff, but i find her whole thing grounded enough in fantasy that i don't really care as much.

It also helps that Seamus is based on a real person and Rasputina is based on myths imo. Like Rasputina has a lot of Baba Yaga influence in her character arc, but Seamus feels like they took real serial killers and amped them up past 100.

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2 hours ago, Thedeadclaw said:

Like Rasputina has a lot of Baba Yaga influence in her character arc

 

No bone leg, no chicken-legs-house, no "I-am-the-guardian-of-the-board-between-life-and-death" theme. No Baba Yaga influence at all. Trust me, I'm Russian, I know our fairy tales.

And Seamus is literally Jack the Ripper of our world's history, by the way. Like, it's the lore.

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5 hours ago, Sgt. Dave said:

That's exactly how I feel about Seamus. I find him repulsive in ways no other master manages. Except maybe Leveticus, he's all manner of creepy. 

Seamus is a terrible person, and he sort of enjoys that.

Leveticus is a terrible person and just doesn't care what you think.

 

:)

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On 10/9/2018 at 2:52 PM, Thedeadclaw said:

I remember the current GG wants to kill all people in Malifaux with magic.

So, it's worth noting that the GG (and the Guild in general) doesn't hate magic or magic-users. They have a bunch of both!

The issue is with people who are using forms of magic that they don't endorse.

Which, sure, appears to be controlling, but remember that one of those forms of magic is literally a death god whispering in peoples' ears and driving them insane. They're definitely controlling, but you can sort of see the reasonable foundation of their argument in there.

 

The story of the Guild is really one of corruption. Sure, you have the obvious corruption of the Guild Guard being the ones who are supposed to enforce the law but instead enforce a very biased version of it, but every branch has some corruption. The Public Relations Bureau is more or less there to push out lies and propaganda, and you can see how easily it corrupted Nellie from a champion of truth to a champion of truthiness. The Death Marshals, tasked with fighting against undead and necromancy, employ both of those things to do so, and the Neverborn Hunters are led by a woman with questionable parentage and a softness for Neverborn (she keeps one enslaved and has been seen riding one around from time to time).

The Witch Hunters are intended to keep a lid on unlawful magic, but most of that unlawful magic goes directly into Sonnia's personal libraries, a woman who uses forbidden magic to burn out peoples' souls and turn them into monsters. The Amalgamation Office was created to crack down on the process of Amalgamation, but its leader both kept an amalgamation on his staff and melded with machines in his avatar form. Lucius runs the judicial branch (and secretly, the Elite Division), both of which have been subverted for his own reasons.

 

Also, I like this thread! But let's try to avoid  bringing up a bunch of real world political stuff, alright?

 

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34 minutes ago, theamazingmrg said:

Why do people like playing the Guild?  For the same reason people like playing the Empire in Star Wars games.  With added cowboys.

...cool theme music? 😇

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Well, things are pretty simple in SW - there are the Good Resistance and the Evil Empire.

In Malifaux it's not so simple: every fraction is pretty evil. May be Gremlins are exception - they are just comic mirror of others.

The Guild is a MNC with all it's oppressive methods + propaganda + corruption.

Arcanists are criminals from the 192X of our world's USA (unions connections, sabotages, murders and smuggling) + cannibals' cult + experiments with people.

Ten Thunders are also criminals but more traditional (kill the family and use their kid as a thug - hello, Mei Feng)

Neverborns are horrible crazy freedom fighters who are OK with eating people and making them loose their minds.

Ressurectionists are maniacs and lunatics.

Outcasts are brutal mercs who are OK with robbery and murders + two Tyrants who want to rule the world.

 

And it's OK for me. It's much more realistic then a dichotomy of Good and Evil - it's sorts of evil.

Just choose yours and try to pretend that your Evil fraction is actually Good.

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All these people refusing to play as Seamus cause he bad man! Its all fiction and sometimes its fun to play as a pyschopathic killer when you are in real life the complete opposite- an empathetic teddy bear! :)

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I'm not so bothered about Seamus being a serial killer, I love the midnight stalker, it's the fact he's a super-rapist who has found a way to remove women of even more agency by literally turning their bodies into mindless puppets. Sonnia's doing a similar thing, and it's just as horrible there, but at least she's not doing it because it makes her feel good.

I think saying everyone is evil is a stretch with Malifaux. I think there are a bunch of people that are morally compromised but generally are trying to make things better for their people (Zoiraida, Ironsides, Reva, Ophelia, Von Schill, Lady J).

I don't think you can give the Guild any leeway though. Nobody asked them to rule the world, they took it because they wanted the power that running it gave them. That's why they're institutionally corrupt, they're just power hungry at their core. I don't see them as hugely analogous to stuff in our world though, I like them as a faction, they're what'd happen if the illuminati went public.

 

 

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On 10/11/2018 at 1:03 PM, Thedeadclaw said:

Once again, the Arcanists don't fit all of the traits to be a terrorist organization, and we have no evidence that anyone besides Ramos was willing to use terrorist tactics to accomplish their goals.

Isn't karis a prime example of someone who is just trying to watch the world burn and using anyone who doesnt help as logs especially if they are guild? Marcus himself has attacked the guilds outposts and forts in the norther barrens using snakes like IED's, night raids, psycological warfare, no to mention creating a cult around himself as he mutilates and mind controls his followers. Raspy is a recluse and maybe the least offensive. Colette runs the smuggling operations, weather human trafficking, weapons, soul stones, doesnt matter. Ironsides was running like a mob silencer and information network before taking over the legitimate half of the arcanists' the M&SU. Sandeep is an idealog and doesnt mind trading in necmonacy or any other illigal magics as long as he feels like freedom fighter for magic against the guild.

I'd argue that even though mei feng is a double agent, she and Colette are the only two who arent working there by choice. 

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Raspys got a lot going on and deserves a bit of leeway, imho, she's practically a deep cover agent. Also her association with the arcanists is really just because they're the only sane people that she can rely on.

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1 hour ago, theamazingmrg said:

And she's the one who associates with cannibalism.

yeah but i mean she's mostly pouting on the mountain right? not really attacking anyone. just sorta moping and eating dudes.

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9 hours ago, Primate said:

they're the only sane people that she can rely on.

Even that tenuous relation is slowly slipping. I think the only sane people left in the Arcanists line up are Collette and Ironsides 

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On 10/13/2018 at 3:21 PM, Primate said:

I don't think you can give the Guild any leeway though. Nobody asked them to rule the world, they took it because they wanted the power that running it gave them. That's why they're institutionally corrupt, they're just power hungry at their core. I don't see them as hugely analogous to stuff in our world though, I like them as a faction, they're what'd happen if the illuminati went public.

I see guild as what would have happened if the East India Trading Company had used magic, toppled governments and taken over a large part of the world. I think that is a pretty fair analogy since they are a profit driven organisation.

 

In response to the original question: Guild was my first faction and I enjoy playing it a lot. That probably has more to do with physical models, familiarity and specific characters than overarching faction background. I will say that the whole corruption of what is classically the "boring good" faction is a large part of the appeal for me. In many games a lawful faction that is defending humanity against monsters would be designated good guys and you'd feel compelled to agree with them because the alternatives are far worse. Even the fascist empire in 40k is better than being ground into Tyranid juice or eternally tormented by demons. 

In Malifaux there are no good guys and humanity would quite possibly be better off without the guild which I find refreshing. I also quickly fell in love with Lucius and his scheming ways. The Lucius story about the ball is kind of what I'm trying to recreate each game. The thematic idea and gameplay feel of killing off your own guys to get the job done while trying to not get your own hands dirty is just so satisfying. All the evidence schemes make the most sense when it's the guild trying to make someone look bad. Why would Lilith care about if she had evidence against Lady Justice when she slaughters a whole town? The neverborn doesn't need it to look good, but Lucius or McMourning would need to frame someone else so it makes a lot more sense. I basically find that many schemes make the most sense when I'm playing guild.

Guild are also a coherent faction. Any guild operative can be given an order to help another one out. Lots of other factions seem cobbled together with very little actually tying them into a coherent faction. The guild have power struggles within a power structure forcing them to scheme. Why are neverborn a coherent faction when they are several different native races that don't really share a society? Some of them are nightmares but some are just native peoples. Even stranger: gremlins are also native to Malifaux but for some reason aren't in the neverborn faction? Swampfiends are split between neverborn and gremlins: why do living trees organise a faction with nephilim and chinese addicts while alligators share a kinship with gremlins? Judging from the models alligators interact with gremlins by eating them so that link is also pretty weird. In guild you have the common theme of trying to uphold the current state of civilisation but often with a presonal agenda, I find that very relatable.

Themewise I got hooked on Lucius and the guild guard. The guild guard led by Dashel feels a lot like Captain Vimes from the Discworld series. He doesn't want to be where he is but he knows he needs to get the job done. My group have our own slightly more humorous substory where a few of us write down silly reports after our games each week.

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