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sullie00

What I hope 3rd Ed WON'T be.

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Unfortunately, I will not be able to participate in the Beta for 3rd edition because this is the busy season for my second job. However, the more I listen to my friends talk about how it looks like 3rd Ed is meant to streamline and simplify the more anxious I become. This was the same them I heard about Age of Sigmar… There were just "too many rules" and it was difficult to play the game. Now, AoS is so easy to play that every game I've ever played was decided in Turn 2. I play Malifaux because it is unique, fluff-oriented/driven, and every piece is an individual that has strengths and weaknesses. I understand that war games are hard to balance. However, I really hope this game keeps its identity. I LOVE the fact that when I look at a card there are fun little half references and cute little jokes (See Teddy's HUG+Peek-a-Boo or the Spanish names for Ortega abilities). For those that would make the argument "... (random ability/action) is broken!" YES! It is broken! But so are the mechanics of almost every other crew if you know what you're doing!!! That's the entire point of this game. It allows YOU as the player to find your own individualized play-style and tell everyone else "Bring it ON!" I truly hope that this game does not lose its unique identity in a world full of games that have cookie-cutter factions with no soul (War-Machine, Hordes, WH Fantasy, WH 40k, etc.). Feel free to diss me if you disagree I don't really care anyway. My entire point is that I love this game because I DON'T have to be like anyone else.

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Although I'm not extremely anxious right now, I fully understand the fears of the OP.

I started Malifaux as a reaction to Warhammer 40k 8th Edition totally ruining the game by streamlining and trying to make it more accessible. In reality they made it a mockery of its previous self with the only thing really determines the outcome of a game is the amount of dice you're able to roll and re-roll or the number of Mortal Wounds you can inflict.

Malifaux is a completely different animal - and I love it. Yes, it is challenging to enter and even more so to become a really good player. As a henchman my hands are always full with the newcomers and their questions - which I love as well. That's why I volunteered to hench in the first place.

 

As mentioned before: I'm not really worried about 3rd since there is no real information available. But I would be very disappointed if Malifaux became a game like so many others where it doesn't really matter what faction you're playing since everything is only a copy&paste. 

If Wyrd (and the selected few in the closed beta) can pull it off and make the game easier to access but keep its tactical depth, the psychological elements as well as the variety of options then everyone wins. 

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Having been through all this with the last edition change it was certainly possible to simplify and streamline the model cards, and the rules, whilst retaining a lot of the story inherent on the cards. If you look at Marcus I would say there was a chunk of fluff lost between first and second, but possibly some gained ( or just changed) between second and the gencon version. 

So if you're happy with the M2e level of fluff and reference then it seems it's looking fine. ( I still miss Hoffman being able to hire copplius just because of the inspiration for him)

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@sullie00 I strongly support your statement and this is exactly what worries me too. I dont mind that much that some masters die and others are reallocated to other factions TBH, even though the master I have played the most over the last two years is Ramos and I have spent a lots of time painting constructs.

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I am not worried at the moment as we don´t know the rules yet. Streamline and simplify don´t have to mean "making the game less tactical". 

One of the problems I and my group have with the game is that there is so many rules for each model that games are sometimes won and lost because you forgot an ability or someone read an ability wrong. So if if you have 5 abilities that do essential the same thing but each have their own little twist it would be wise to add them together into one ability that does the same on every model. It will make the "forgetting and misreading" aspect less important and more games is won because of good playing. I know you will learn the game in the end, but for casual and new players the huge number of abilities that essential do the same thing is making the game less enjoyable. Also removing less used abilities or less essential abilities form a model will also remove some noise. I have good faith in this aspect of "Streamline and simplify" but time will tell.
 

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I try not to be too negative toward GW, because if people enjoy it that good for them and I find 40k tournaments are a great way to get people to consider other games. That said, looking at what GW did in a similar situation and worrying about another company being that bad at writing rules is probably being excessively pessimistic. 

Simplifying and streamlining is probably a good thing, if done well. AoS was not really a simplification, it was starting anew with an entirely different game. 40k 8th edition is more enjoyable (and popular as far as I can tell) than 7th. 8th is mostly awful for the same reasons as 7th was (rules being an unbalanced mess), but at least the game isn't such a pain to play. 

Which is what "streamlining and simplification" is about; when done well. It's about minimising the things that one has to do in order to play a game, but that are not part of the fun we're after. Things like measuring, looking up rules, learning rules and making lists (fine and fuzzy line between fun and chore there). Like peeling fruit isn't what you're looking for, but you need to get past it. 

More rules don't make a game better; good rules do. The easier it is to get to actual playing and resolve things the better. 

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Have to agree with DarkBlack. AoS is not a simplification on Warhammer, it's an entirely new game with a loose story connection. My guess is that Malifaux will still be Malifaux, hopefully with less anooying stuff like 200 abilities that do the exact same thing with slightly different wordings leading to endless timing discussions. There's been a few sneak peaks of cards and while Marcus looked very different he didn't look "dumbed down" in any way. The charge stat going away and everything going by your move value for example is a lot less book-keeping for a pretty small difference in the actual game. The new way charge works will be different and require other tactics but will not really a simplification, more of a step sideways. Models still have soulstone costs on the new cards so it won't be AoS. :D 

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On 9/12/2018 at 10:13 AM, Ravenard said:

i hope for more "spanish named" abilities for my Ortega. 

buy/print them in spanish.. ;)

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I really don't mind at all to have the same ability/action many times with different models. What I would hate is for example having Von Schill with Augmented Jump changed to Small Wings because that was the decided name for the ability. 

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On 10/9/2018 at 11:12 PM, Zebo said:

I really don't mind at all to have the same ability/action many times with different models. What I would hate is for example having Von Schill with Augmented Jump changed to Small Wings because that was the decided name for the ability. 

Augmented jump would be the likely name of that ability since several models already have augmented jump. You can also augment a jump by flapping your small wings so I think that kind of generally applicable naming would likely be the norm.

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*pictures a watcher flapping desperately while trying to soar over an obstacle*

On 9/12/2018 at 3:13 AM, Ravenard said:

i hope for more "spanish named" abilities for my Ortega. 

Can I hope someone makes a pronunciation guide this time? Even an unofficial guide. I really liked that the book which introduced Kirai had those.

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So I guess when you boil it down everyone wants M3E to be complex but not complicated.  Not unreasonable.  I know Infinity players who are turned off by how confusing Malifaux is.  Wrap your head around that, if you can.

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After playing in the Closed Beta since summer, I can honestly say the game is in a better place than its ever been. Things are simplified, but not to the point where it causes things to be mundane or paint by the numbers. The only things that have honestly changed that much are the number of conditions, which were way too bloated in 2nd, and how cover and concealment work. 

Sure, some of the models have been simplified as well, but it honestly makes the game play faster without ruining the quality. 

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On 9/4/2018 at 12:23 PM, bsm86 said:

Although I'm not extremely anxious right now, I fully understand the fears of the OP.

I started Malifaux as a reaction to Warhammer 40k 8th Edition totally ruining the game by streamlining and trying to make it more accessible. In reality they made it a mockery of its previous self with the only thing really determines the outcome of a game is the amount of dice you're able to roll and re-roll or the number of Mortal Wounds you can inflict.

Malifaux is a completely different animal - and I love it. Yes, it is challenging to enter and even more so to become a really good player. As a henchman my hands are always full with the newcomers and their questions - which I love as well. That's why I volunteered to hench in the first place.

 

As mentioned before: I'm not really worried about 3rd since there is no real information available. But I would be very disappointed if Malifaux became a game like so many others where it doesn't really matter what faction you're playing since everything is only a copy&paste. 

If Wyrd (and the selected few in the closed beta) can pull it off and make the game easier to access but keep its tactical depth, the psychological elements as well as the variety of options then everyone wins. 

40K was made a mockery of its former self when it made the jump from 2nd to 3rd Edition and it never recovered.

 

But now we have Malifaux, so all is well.  I can't imagine, after everything Wyrd have said, that they'll change the game anywhere near as much as GW have with theirs over the years.

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Me and my group had similar concerns but after playing a few beta games, our conclusion is:

 

The game is simpler but not stupider. You have to remember a lot less information because each model doesn`t contribute as much as it did in M2E (this especially includes masters) but you still have to think what to pick in your crew, what to activate, in what order and how to score and deny points. 

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