Primate Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Merchant said: Don't speculate, participate! join the m3e beta today! Would if I could. Applications have been closed for ages and there are no intentions to reopen it. A shame but hey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merchant Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 huh... what about just writing an email to their customer support? honestly kind of surprised it closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 We just announced a new wing of beta opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norken Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 I hope Perdita gets her defenses lowered to something reasonable AND Fransisco loses that idiotic buff that pushes her already too high defenses to something that is zero fun to play against. Even when you are beating the tar out of a Perdita crew on points, it is one of the worst negative play experiences in any miniatures games out there. I'd guess that the 'Perdita play experience' single handedly accounted for more lost new players than anything else in the game. Nobody really cares that much if some obscure combo wins tournaments that most customers will never attend, but everyone cares when a very popular master for new players is so mathematically skewed that the only vector for interacting her is to not interact with her. I don't think she needed that random huge push for no reason either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 I always thought of Perdita as a watershed master. She seems really good when you first start, but she isn't really that good. I really like it when my opponent uses El Mayor on her, because I normally try and kill her without having to get through Df 7, so the boost doesn't do anything to make her more survivable. But everyone's experience is different. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 @Norken Why do models being killed matter if you are beating her on points? The whole idea of Malifaux is that you can get massacred and still win. I think the masters who stay in their deployment zone and win by simply summoning are a lot more negative to face. I also ran into a lot of super negative experiences in warmahordes where the objective was caster kill and some casters just felt unkillable. I wouldn't mind Francisco's buff being changed but I don't think Perdita's base stats are more problematic than many other masters. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK1979 Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 I agree that Perdita seems very strong when you are new to the game , but when you have some more experience you will see ways how to deal with it. Blast a nearby model, walk duels, kill Frank .... I also agree that when playing against Nicodem who sits back and only does his summoning thing is way more frustrating to play 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 Facing ressers back in the day with book strats like reconnoiter... Maybe it's just because I've played Perdita myself and know how to handle her. I find that my playstyle naturally gravitates towards mostly ignoring the enemy master since so many of them are super hard to kill. It doesn't work very well against certain summoners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norken Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 On 10/30/2018 at 1:26 AM, Adran said: I always thought of Perdita as a watershed master. She seems really good when you first start, but she isn't really that good. I really like it when my opponent uses El Mayor on her, because I normally try and kill her without having to get through Df 7, so the boost doesn't do anything to make her more survivable. But everyone's experience is different. Yes. Everything you say is 100% what is wrong with her. She isn't that good and yet to interact with her you totally ditch interacting with the standard attack and defense rules to instead use some sneaky backdoor loophole to get at her sideways. Congrats. The new player now thinks the game is absolutely dumb and walks away. As for someone else saying Malifaux is a game where you can win while losing all your models... Yes... but new players shouldn't be shown an extreme object lesson in that the first. They might think it is normal. Sorry, but Perdita's design is pants on the head stupid bad for the game. The game would be vastly better served by making her a stronger master that is actually fun for the other player to interact with. She is popular so it would be a good thing for her to be good. I hope she gets changed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Well Everyone is getting changed because the whole edition is different. I personally liked they way she showed that the game should involve more than just straight forward killing. But I learnt in first edition when Pandora was even harder to hit (and actually so was Perdita thanks to the way soulstones worked), so there was lots of conversations about how to hurt her without having to directly attack her so I never worried about the high stats In a game where killing isn't intended to be the main focus, and even has several masters that physically come back from the dead each turn, I didn't see a problem with a Master that has some great defensive stats but is hugely fragile if you can attack them some other way. There are ways of dealing with her without killing her. I can see how she could annoy relatively new players, but I'm not even sure she would make my top 10 list of Masters I expect new players to struggle with. And she will die to lots of attacks, but you have to expect most of your attacks to miss. I don't find that a particularly abnormal state of affairs in war games that the Leader cam just wade through rank and file troops without much concern of death a lot of the time. The fact that its not so true for most Malifaux masters I can see how it might be my mindset, the game isn't about killing everything, so the fact that there is something there that is hard to kill means that I can decide that I just don't need to kill it if I don't have the tools in my crew to just do that. If you come to the game with the mindset its a war game so you should kill everything, and then discover there are models that are good counters to the "kill everything" approach then I can certainly see how it might annoy you. But I often find those people also don't like how they can kill everything, and still lose. And because I talk with the new players locally and if they complained about this I would just have this conversation, and suggest changes to the way they play to deal with it, its not been a problem locally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 If every master works the same way so a beginner never runs into a weird situation then masters will lose an awful lot of uniqueness and I think the game will suffer. There are so many models thatbreak the basic rules and that is a lot of what makes the game interesting (but also has drawbackd). If you are playing against a new player don't pick Perdita. She isn't uniquely hard to kill or the only master where you need to go a little sideways to deal. Masters that have require some thought to kill include: Hamelin, Leveticus, Collodi, Pandora, Dreamer, Titania, Lucius, Marcus, Rasputina, Nico, Som'er, Zipp, Yan Lo, McCabe and Kirai. She is somewhat rare in reaching df 9, I can only think of McCabe who also does that off the top of my head. McCabe also has the means to protect and reposition Francisco so can in many ways be an even tougher nut to crack. In my opinion if someone can't deal with the thought of handling models in different ways than killing them (by straight up attacking them in a certain way) then I think it is a really necessary skill to learn. In Malifaux one will soon run into situations where it isn't worth it to dedicate enough resources to kill a certain enemy model. If a few games against Perdita has someone quit the game then there might be other games that will bring them more joy. The positioning requirements and low defense of Francisco makes him a perfect lightning rod as well so it's tricky to keep the buff up and stay safe. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Ludvig said: She is somewhat rare in reaching df 9, I can only think of McCabe who also does that off the top of my head. McCabe also has the means to protect and reposition Francisco so can in many ways be an even tougher nut to crack. If I remember my upgrades right Shenlong can sort of get to df11. Only works if he's spending wounds, poison and getting charged though. But still. Not really the point of this thread but thought I'd mention it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 23 minutes ago, Nikodemus said: If I remember my upgrades right Shenlong can sort of get to df11. Only works if he's spending wounds, poison and getting charged though. But still. Not really the point of this thread but thought I'd mention it Eleven? Aww. And here I was happy about figuring out how to go to Df10 (which is also Guild, twice, but requires a particular opponent). That boost doesn’t sound like it even requires opponent’s cooperation. Numbers are not my NPE. (Pandora randomly deciding she can substitute her +3 better defensive stat even if you specify hitting the other stat is a load of malarkey, though.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said: Eleven? Aww. And here I was happy about figuring out how to go to Df10 (which is also Guild, twice, but requires a particular opponent). That boost doesn’t sound like it even requires opponent’s cooperation. It's not cheap by any means, and df11 requires you getting charged. High River Style let's you, after cheating phase, take 1-2-3 wounds to increase duel total that amount. (df6 +3). One of Shen's wave 5 upgrades lets him tick down poison by 1 for df+1 for duration of the action (so +1 for duration of charge action and another +1 per charge attack). Far as I'm concerned that's worse of his two wave 5 upgrades and pretty poison intensive, but I suppose there's crew builds that could make it run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durza Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 <Modhat> I've just deleted a comment, lets keep things from getting too personal shall we? <Modhat> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork_Fish Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 With non-keyword models now hired at a premium, I’d like to see each master get two henchmen to pick from. Maybe bring back Perdita’s manticore buddy from 1st ed? And with Ryle laid to rest, poor Hoffman’s kind of alone right now. I bet Joss is looking for a new job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 19 minutes ago, Clockwork_Fish said: With non-keyword models now hired at a premium, I’d like to see each master get two henchmen to pick from. Maybe bring back Perdita’s manticore buddy from 1st ed? And with Ryle laid to rest, poor Hoffman’s kind of alone right now. I bet Joss is looking for a new job! On the mechanical hand, yes, I expect Hoffman to pick up Ramos’ connected models. On the non-mechanical hand, I expect Joss (and Hank) are going to have a heartfelt fist-based discussion over Hoffman’s continued use of machine puppet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 The last fiction regarding Hoffman, where he lost Ryle, but also he realized how much he was puppeting, made me expect to see a lot less machine puppet in his play style going forward. It will probably still be on his card, but I'm guessing it won't be as big a part of how he works. I hope he keeps the place from Improved harness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, 4thstringer said: The last fiction regarding Hoffman, where he lost Ryle, but also he realized how much he was puppeting, made me expect to see a lot less machine puppet in his play style going forward. It will probably still be on his card, but I'm guessing it won't be as big a part of how he works. I hope he keeps the place from Improved harness. The place from Improved Harness is a leading reason that my Hoffman has used much less machine puppet and much more welding torch lately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 Machine puppet should move to an upgrade that lets him hire from the puppet keyword. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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