Weapon Rules Questions

[Bazlord_Prime]

AG Netgun & Tranquilizer Gun

These guns are in Into The Steam, and have the "Snaring" & "Disabling" special rules. Neither of those rules are in the Core 2.0 book, but the new "Slowing" special rule does the exact same thing as Snaring. Neither of these guns is in the Core book.

So, if I wanted to use those weapons now, I figure I'd still be able to do so using the ITS profiles, but:

A). Does this mean that they both lost the Disabling special rule, and if not:

B). Are these weapons intended to Paralysed an opponent on the first hit (by applying Snaring then Disabling), or on successive hits (by giving them slow on the first hit, then Paralysed on the second?)

Thanks!

[Bazlord_Prime]

Also, Rifle & Shotgun ranges:

"Rifle" special rule in Into The Steam says the range of the rifle is "multiplied by 10 for each Plus Flip it gains from the Focused Condition". But the Core book version of Rifle says to increase the range by +10 for each Plus Flip from Focused.

However, "Shot Studies" Talent in the Core book says that if the character is Focused, and firing a shotgun loaded with slug ammo, then "she multiplies the range of the shotgun by x10".

Is the Shot Studies talent also really be meant to say "she increases the range of the shotgun by +10", the same way the updated Rifle rule does? Otherwise it's possible to get solid slug ammo (heavy & non-aerodynamic) going 90-100 yards, while a focused rifle can only reach 44 yards max. (Howles Pattern 1874 + 2*10 from two Focused Actions due to being Fast).

<Not that I'm considering initiating any Dramatic time encounters at ranges up to or above 44 yards, but hey - I'm sure my Fated will find a way 😉 >

[EnternalVoid]

Well one thing you have to remember is that Into the Steam originally was made while we were still in the first edition of TTB, so some rules have had some shake ups.  My general rule of thumb has been that anything in the 2.0 core book takes priority over Into the Steam, Under Quarantine, and Into the Bayou but if it does not strait out change it then it likely still exists.  For example, they removed Carbines and folded them into the Rifles proper and took out Saddlegun because of it.  In the Errata in the Into the Bayou section they actually said to take the rule out and replace it for one weapon with a different rule.

A. Snaring is in the 2.0 Core book, just not in the weapon section, on page 175 under the Pugilism rules.  It says "Snaring: The target gains the Slow Condition in addition to suffering damage".  So it seemed to have stayed as such as a Fatemaster I would rule that Disabling is still around as well.

B. I would rule one then the other as a Fatemaster, so it would take two shots to paralyze.  Disabling says if the Target has slow, and does not give a timing so it would be on hitting.  Snaring seems to give Slow at the same time as dealing damage, so you would check for slow for Disabling, continue, and then cause snaring while dealing damage.

 

For the Rifle Special rule I think it is pretty safe to say use the 2.0 Corebook of +10 per Focus.  I would also have Shot Study be the same, +10, and if any player questioned me I would claim it was likely either an artifact from 1.0 Shot Study or they mean that X to be a +, and if they question me further I would rule it as a Fatemaster.  I would also point out that Mason has a thread call "Through the Breach FAQ and Errata" pin to the top of the this forum.  You can post stuff there or errors you think you see to help them address them potentially in the next FAQ.  Despite being a possible secret Tyrant, Mason can be fairly open.

You will always be surprised what Fated will come up with...

[Bazlord_Prime]

2 hours ago, EnternalVoid said:

A. Snaring is in the 2.0 Core book, just not in the weapon section, on page 175 under the Pugilism rules.  It says "Snaring: The target gains the Slow Condition in addition to suffering damage".  So it seemed to have stayed as such as a Fatemaster I would rule that Disabling is still around as well.

B. I would rule one then the other as a Fatemaster, so it would take two shots to paralyze.  Disabling says if the Target has slow, and does not give a timing so it would be on hitting.  Snaring seems to give Slow at the same time as dealing damage, so you would check for slow for Disabling, continue, and then cause snaring while dealing damage.

True - I forgot about Grappling still having "Snaring". Thanks! And in the FAQ + Errata, Disabling is not specifically mentioned as being removed in 2.0 (then again, neither is "Saddlegun", so...)

B). Agreed, based on your point about timing. I missed that Snaring happens while/after damaging, and Disabling just...happens.

2 hours ago, EnternalVoid said:

For the Rifle Special rule I think it is pretty safe to say use the 2.0 Corebook of +10 per Focus.  I would also have Shot Study be the same, +10, and if any player questioned me I would claim it was likely either an artifact from 1.0 Shot Study or they mean that X to be a +, and if they question me further I would rule it as a Fatemaster.  I would also point out that Mason has a thread call "Through the Breach FAQ and Errata" pin to the top of the this forum.  You can post stuff there or errors you think you see to help them address them potentially in the next FAQ.  Despite being a possible secret Tyrant, Mason can be fairly open.

Agreed. I'll bring it up on the FAQ thread - thanks!

[diki]

I know you weren't exactly asking but if I was writing (house) rules for those weapons:-

The tranq gun I would look at things which force an unconsiousness challenge (sleep spell, some triggers etc) and try to figure out a reasonable balance to stop it being too powerful? maybe it would have lesser effects depending on the serverity for the damage flip (weak - dazed, moderate - slowed, strong - unconsious challenge) to try to reflect if the needle struck somewhere good. Taking into account it would likely only work on living targets - or at least requiring a specific reloading with poison/chemical specific per category of target.

The Net gun seems like it should restrict most actions other than trying to get out of the net. I can't think of a similar mechanic really. I don't think paralysis is a good mechanic for it though. It wouldn't stop you talking or doing limited movement things (maybe you can cast spells etc depending on how you think spells work) but it should stop you fighting well and running around, and probably have a high chance of knocking you prone to begin with. A simple reasonable approximation for it could be slow (reduced actions) + dazed (+2 difficulty doing things) (with a ongoing chance to fall prone) until you pass some test to escape the net (or get assistance to remove the net).

[EnternalVoid]

Well not to spoil but there is a slight different a Tranq gun's rules in Jurassic Faux One Shot.  I am doing this from memory as I don't have one shot or Fatemastered it *our Henchman ran it for Free RPG day*.  I believe each time it tagged the target it slowed them and reduced their Movement and Charge by -1.  If the target hit 0 charge and movement then it fell asleep or something like that.  Might be worse looking into that if you are interested in playing around with Tranquilizer guns.