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dope_danny

So based on Gencon what do you expect is the biggest point shake ups coming in 3rd?

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Another couple things of note,

2 actions are gone in reality, but not in spirit. One specific example is Flurry (which the Ice Golem has). It is now a front of card ability that reads something like "Once per activation, after resolving a :ToS-Melee: attack, this model may discard a card to take an additional :ToS-Melee:"

Caches are gone, but it seems like upgrades on masters will be less necessary. So maybe crew sizes will work out to be about the same, since you're saving stones on upgrades, but spending them on your SS pool

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1 hour ago, cbtb11235813 said:

Caches are gone, but it seems like upgrades on masters will be less necessary. So maybe crew sizes will work out to be about the same, since you're saving stones on upgrades, but spending them on your SS pool

Wild prediction time... While I think this is the idea, I don't think that's actually how it's going to play out. Upgrades either have to deliver some form of value for their cost or people won't use them. If they do, people will continue to use them. As with upgrades in M2E there's likely going to be masters that will have enough worthwhile ones that they'll fill their slots and masters where people will look at the upgrades and then stick them back in the box/cupboard.

I just believe that upgrades are super hard to get exactly right strength/cost wise. As indicated by the number of used/available upgrades.

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I am a huge fan of carrot and stick design for incentivizing more thematic crew selection. Mostly because a game like malifaux is outstanding at visual theme to have mechanics that now help get that visual on the table more in a meaningful way I greatly appreciate.

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I must say that I am not a massive fan of the one stone penalty for hiring out of theme. I was hoping for a slightly more subtle incentive for staying in theme.

Something like an extra 2 inches deployment, slight buffs or debuffs such as fast or slow for one model  if you stick to a theme. 

There are a few systems out there that work their force selection like this and it seems to work. 

I hope that the new force selection rules don't badly affect the huge variety of competitive lists out there. 

Also has anyone heard what the future will be for mercenaries? Will they still be a thing? If so will they now incur a 2ss point penalty? 

 

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The huge variety of competitive lists? You seem to be watching different games than I am. I would argue there really aren’t that many competitive lists.

As far as the concept of mercs, as understood by M2E, Mason said that’s not going to be a thing anymore. Merc is now the Viktorias keyword, and the concept of a pool of out of faction models that anyone can hire for a 1 stone penalty is gone.

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On 8/5/2018 at 2:59 PM, Tors said:

They are toned down. Look at Marcus and Rasputina. Current Versions would destroy them.

This unobvious for me. Could you please explain how you compare them?

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2 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

The huge variety of competitive lists? You seem to be watching different games than I am. I would argue there really aren’t that many competitive lists.

I think this really depends on your Meta. If yours is super cut-throat WAAC, then nothing is ever going to change that.  To paraphrase one of the top US players "Oh Sandeep's nerfed, I'll just move onto the next broken thing".  If this is a thing for your meta, then I give the new edition six months to a year before all the top combos are found and people are crying out for errata.  If your meta is much more chilled even at the tournament level, then your all good and will see a variety of crews. We recently had an 18-player tourney (not the biggest, but decent size) and I didn't see anyone playing the same masters (if there were they certainly weren't the top masters with hand-crafted lists designed to destroy all before them).

Personally, I'm really looking forward to M3E just to freshen up the game.  Everyone will be back to square one and it'll be exciting trying out a variety of crews and tactics!

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1 hour ago, manul said:

This unobvious for me. Could you please explain how you compare them?

No, as i have zero ambitions to discuss the comparability given the current Informations at length. If you don't see obvious differences in possible performances, we seem to have different views anyway.

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On 8/7/2018 at 10:33 PM, manul said:

This unobvious for me. Could you please explain how you compare them?

I think Masters have less of an overall impact on the game in 3e because they (at least Raspy and Marcus) have moved to a role in which they support synergies in their thematic crews.

Current Marcus is doing up to four 4/4/6 attacks (with the Trail of the Gods upgrade), plus sense fear triggered from a (0) action, so actually five attacks and he may have the enemy at :-flip to all duels if he feels particularly mean. He can also scheme with wk 8 (I loved last minute bodyguards with Marcus, just a casual 24" stroll to the enemy deployment zone), he can alpha friendly or enemy models, he can give a beast :+flipto attack and damage (with the small downside of :-flip:-flipto df).

New Marcus is doing 2/3/5 damage and is focused around giving his crew buff upgrades. He can make friendly beasts charge, which keep in mind is a weaker charge than 2e charge (in this case at least). Obviously we haven't seen any general upgrades from 3e and we can only go off of what we have seen, but I think it is pretty obvious that old Marcus would murder new Marcus 1 on 1.

Current Raspy is base 7 with a 2 / 4:blast/ 5:blast:blast attack which is routinely buffed to 3 / 5:blast/ 6:blast:blast, she casts through friendly models (which can move), can give them armour, can summon 50mm blocking, indestructible terrain with very low cards and has a trigger to draw on a :ToS-Tome:. She can also paralyse (and has a totem that eats paralysed models with an attack that is ml8, Seamus is tasty) and she can be teleported by Snow Storm out of trouble. 

New raspy is base 6 with a 2 / 3:blast/ 4:blast damage attack and an action that summons 30mm destructible markers (which provide lots of synergy to her crew, but her crew also places). Her bonus action I honestly can't judge. I'm assuming the Mv 14 duel is a simple duel that targets have to flip, and if these 'cataclysm markers' are 50mm then that seems like a very potent debuff attack. Despite this, new Raspy isn't going to be doing the same kind of damage old Raspy did. She will interact with her crew a lot more though.

I'm excited to play with the new masters given that they seem to have more direct synergy with their crews.

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But you're comparing current masters with upgrades versus future masters without knowing anything about future upgrades. 

What if Marcus keep the actual Trial of Gods upgrade? 

Looking only the base stats, they're not so different. 

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Well and we only have 2 masters revealed. Baselines are created by seeing how everything works in the same big pool. If the general abilities of everything is less then you can have a master in such a pool who is statistically less powerful compared to its currebt version be more powerful in the system in which they appear.

Until we see a larger pool of models, masters, and upgrades we don’t have any useful information to compared current master strength vs upcoming master strength.

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20 hours ago, Zebo said:

But you're comparing current masters with upgrades versus future masters without knowing anything about future upgrades. 

What if Marcus keep the actual Trial of Gods upgrade? 

Looking only the base stats, they're not so different. 

I'm only comparing info we have. Other than that, I'm pretty sure Mason said that upgrades are going to be rarer but more impactful, which, combined with the less offensively focused base cards of Raspy and Marcus, makes me think that these Masters are changing somewhat in playstyle and likely won't have all of their old styles and upgrades make it to 3e.

Obviously this is all speculation, I could easily be wrong. If Marcus gets his insane upgrades as well as this buffing focused playstyle, even as mutually exclusive options, that would be awesome. Hmm, what if he gets an upgrade that attaches all of his mutation upgrades onto himself and ignores the rest of his crew? That could be interesting...

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