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voranth

First feelings M3E

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I'm not gonna lie fam, I'm feeling a bit bummed. I've lost my favorite two masters to obscurity or another faction (Lilith and Lynch). It's the same with Collodi who I was most excited to try out next, especially with Hinmatsu's release this month.

What's a Neverborner to do? Hopefully I really enjoy the rework of Pandora or Zoraida.

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It seems to me that Nekima and Titania has taken over most of Lilith's portfolio and frankly, between alt Nekima, Titania and current plastic Lilith, I think Lilith is the least appealing sculpt.

I'm a bit bummed about Collodi who was going to be my next master but for now I'll stick with Zoraida and Titania and see what M3E has in store for Dreamer and Pandora.

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Yeah, existing NB players are getting hit hard in terms of Masters disappearing. I only just bought Lynch's crew (to expand on my NB as I also have Zoraida), and while I can still play him in 10T, I won't have an existing stake in 10T any longer either (Brewmaster going solo Bayou), so that's a shame. Was also just about to pick up Collodi and Lilith as my next NB Masters, but I'm rethinking that for now. Probably not any kind of deal breaker (for me), but I completely comisserate with y'all who are looking at three of your Masters, and thinking "Damn...".

Sure, Nekima should be able to pick up where Lilith has left off. But Lynch and Collodi have both gone buh-bye (what will become of the Bunraku, Wicked Dolls, Hinamatsu, etc?), and it's especially sour given that a few releases that were meant to be released some months ago (again, Hinamatsu, etc), but this announcement has pipped them before they've even been released.

I'm guessing it'll still be a year or so before M3e lands, and there's playtesting and feedback to give before then, so let's get onto that beta-test crew and see what we can make of the now proposition. Can't whinge too hard about things if we don't take the opportunity to contribute feedback to the process.

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I see it as a double-edged sword for Neverborn. On one hand, losing three Masters is definitely a blow if you're a dedicated Neverborn player. But in exchange you get three new Masters - one who's basically a super-powered Lilith, one Dual-Faction Marcus and one brand new Master. Off the top of my head no other Faction is getting as much from the new edition, and that in itself is pretty exciting. 

@emiba is probably right about Liliths playstyle. Titania's got the nature/terrain elements pinned down while Nekima seems to have the Black Blood (assuming they're similar to how they play in M2E). Marcus might even give you the guerilla warfare style of play that Lilith has/had. It's not the same as having it all in one package with Lilith, but it's something at least! 

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I’m enthusiastic. I never really played Collodi and was never interested enough to even buy Lynch. Losing Lilith stings because she got me into the game.

But Pandora has been my go to for years and Titania is starting to get table time too. I also really dig both of their themes. I’m happy using Dead Mans Hand Lilith whenever I’m feeling nostalgic.

I’m also super keen to see what they do with Lilith in the future. I’m betting none of them are gone forever and are getting reworks. I’d love to see a Outcast Lilith, working to get back at Nekima from the shadows.

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I just received my Dreamer - although I had the feeling, that a bat-swinging teen version was on the horizon. Luckily I’m more of a painter than gamer these days. So I’m looking forward to see whether his new box will be just as cool, and then what will happen to Pandoras models - who despite the cool concept looked a little bland. 

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I only have collodi and lynch so i'm a bit worried for my future with the neverborn. Just need to wait more informations on illuminated/graves/tannen/etc (keyword? nvb or 10t or both?) and dolls (which master to play them with?).

Otherwise the changes seems interesting and i'm excited for my ulix crew. (growing pigs and stampede sounds very nice).

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8 hours ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

I'm guessing it'll still be a year or so before M3e lands

Bazlord, my feeling is that it's a lot less time, after all, they will start with demo of m3e in few days.. i suppose end of this year, or Jan.19...

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By  the way, nothing says nobody returns later in m3, Like they did for mk1 master returned later, i was not  there but  i understood that at launch only three master for faction were updated And in the ma in book. Collodi may return, And ad BG goes on nobody can say that, maybe, Hoffman frees some beardy guy or that a good girl go bad ad broke free from her prison while healing for now. 

 

And what mean death to a resurrectionist? I hope for good  twist in the story...

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2 hours ago, Aegnor said:

I only have collodi and lynch so i'm a bit worried for my future with the neverborn. Just need to wait more informations on illuminated/graves/tannen/etc (keyword? nvb or 10t or both?) and dolls (which master to play them with?).

Otherwise the changes seems interesting and i'm excited for my ulix crew. (growing pigs and stampede sounds very nice).

Neverborn needed some excitement putting back into the faction, yea it sucks to lose masters but on the up side you get lots of new toys to tinker with.

I like how the story has changed the factions of some masters and I'm very much looking forward to the new addition.

As for time line I would guess that it is needing to land before the end of the year, hobbyists like me will continue to buy models but I would Imagine that the gamer's are going to be holding back wanting to see the rules before spending their money.

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I must say that I am a bit disappointed. Lilith was the entire reason I got hooked on the neverborn way back in first edition and whilst she is no longer my favourite master she is certainly a solid performer and a go to in some situations. Losing lynch and Collodi is a blow. The new master looks like he could have potential but gaining Marcus does not interest me much. My biggest concern will be the new hiring system. One of the best things about the Neverborn is the way that models meant for use with one master will synergise well with other crews. I.e. Will o the wisps work really well for Zoraida but also for Titania or Pandora. Mr Graves is another example of a model that works in well with most masters. I worry that the new hiring system will result in less options for making lists and less diversity in the lists people can create and run competitively. 

Reading about the way the Dreamer will work sounds exciting. 

Also now that Nekima is a master in her own right what am I going to do for a massive beatstick model in my lists?

With any luck a new edition will breathe some new life into some of my old models that dont get table time any more (Mature Nephilim, young Nephilim Silurids etc.) 

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I see a lot of complaints about restricting options, but let’s face it, if you care about competitiveness your options were restricted anyway. There’s a reason we had what were commonly known as the Neverborn All Stars. You had the same handful of models that made up the core of most Neverborn lists, regardless of master, and other factions were no different.

The majority of the faction didn’t see the table as it was. Even if we see more common models for each master but different to others due to theme, I’ll take it as a win. Better than seeing some combination of  Doppleganger, Nekima, Mr Graves and Lilitu hitting the table for most lists across faction, or the ever fun ‘X new minion looks great, but it’s no Illuminated...’.

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Sad to see Lilith go away since I love her. 

I am optimistic about more theme and different masters running different models so you don't see the same three models in every list. If they handle the limited upgrades well and give models proper differentiation the same master won't always run the same crew because strats and schemes will make you want to switch up your lists. Hopefully each master will get limiteds to run different styles and possibly even giving bonuses to certain models so Nekima can run a kiling game with one limited and more scheme shenanigans with another. Perhaps even giving a hiring discount on some models or granting them different 0 actions depending on the limited upgrades.

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I'd kind of prefer if they went back to the older design philosophy of certain masters being your go to picks in certain scenarios but subpar in others so you have to switch between them.

If they made it actually work that is. :)

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I would argue that’s an impossibility to get right given the amount of masters in the game, and I’d prefer if every master, and specifically master only, was good at every scenario, and it was their that crew shifted for each scenario. I don’t care if a player wants to mono master at an event, but I’d like the crew to have to shift around.

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Not sure how that would work given the supposed leaning towards more thematic crews. Presumably if a master is an all rounder but their thematic crew is specialised that'll make them less effective in all scenarios their crew isn't geared towards, since they'll have to hire non-keyword models at whatever premium that costs.

Personally I don't really get the point of having so many masters with their own thematic crews and the option to pick them after seeing the scenario if you're be able to do any scenario fine regardless of what master/crew you went for. 

EDIT: I'm also hoping they cut down the range of abilities and playstyles for each of the masters to simplify things. Say I'm definitely in the minority on that one though.

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42 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

I'm also hoping they cut down the range of abilities and playstyles for each of the masters to simplify things. Say I'm definitely in the minority on that one though.

I agree with this.  I know tactical options and variety are considered strengths in Malifaux, but as a less experienced player regularly playing against strong opponents, it's really easy to get so overwhelmed by the complexity of your opponent's crew & synergies (and indeed your own) that you don't actually learn anything from the experience.

It might detract from the very top player's experience, but I feel a shallower learning curve would keep me enthusiastic about the game.

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I really like the complexity and depth of Malifaux. As someone who has been playing wargames for nearly 30 years I have found that systems that lack depth can grow very stale over time. 

I do understand that Malifaux is a steep learning curve and it can be pretty daunting for new players trying to learn how each model works and all the special abilities that are out there.

However having played several other skirmish sise games I find that the simpler ones that lack the depth of Malifaux tend to fall by the wayside. 

I would like to see some of the less viable models in the game get a revamp. Playing with the same models over and over again gets boring quickly. I am confident that Wyrd are up to the challenge on this. The numerous rebalancing of statlines this year has had me brushing the dust off several of my older models. 

Wyrd are very open and consultative with their player community regarding future releases, perhaps more so than any other games company in the world. If we as players want to see the game take a certain direction it is up to us to participate in the development stages of this new version of the game. 

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With the only masters I own being Lilith and Lynch, 3E is looking like my nightmare scenario. I have little interest in playing Nekima, but my collection is mostly nephilim and brilliance models so I feel like I'm going to effectively have to start buying malifaux over if I want to play Neverborn (which I do.)  

The new crew rules seem like a nudge to get people to buy more models, and of course a way to more easily balance things. It seems like this will make it harder to slowly expand into new masters, without buying all their coordinating models.  These changes remind me of some of Privateer Press' changes to Warmachine in the middle of 3E, especially the push to more thematic lists making factions more segmented. 

The new options do look interesting, but as a casual player, expanding into one or two new masters (Titania and either Euripedes or Zoraida for me) seems particularly daunting. 

I hope Wyrd puts out a great game.  They seem to know what they are doing. I just have concerns for now. Finally, if this news had dropped a year ago, and I'd known I'd need to make more purchases to solidify my Malifaux lists, I would have just bought into TOS instead. Right now I wish I had pledged. 

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I'm excited about 3e. I doubt Lilith is gone forever. Maybe her role will switch and be henchman to a different NB Master to get a chance at Nekima again. Titania perhaps? I also enjoy how it seems like the NB are getting ready even more for a civil war. Titania building up allegiances and such. Though, I understand the Collodi and Lynch people feel jilted, I never really thought much of them thematically. Collodi more so than Lynch for sure. Anyway, take my opinion with a grain of salt as I have only actually been playing for the last couple of months, even if I got interested in the game near a year ago. Also, I just want to add that by description, it sounds like Neverborn as a whole just got a power up. I mean, a few of these masters, and potentially their crew, sound like they will be a lot tougher than the Neverborn were known for. 

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Collodi was one of the reasons I got into Neverborn, even if I never got around to picking him up.  Neverborn won't be the same if we lose the creepy dolls. The new stuff looks neat and seems to be pulling Neverborn in a more cohesive direction, but I'll miss the hodgepodge that was old Neverborn. 

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I repeat, i have faith that not  soon, maybe, but  se will see  the "excluded ones" again. Even  in m2e base book there were all  the m1 masters

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7 hours ago, saxcloud said:

I repeat, i have faith that not  soon, maybe, but  se will see  the "excluded ones" again. Even  in m2e base book there were all  the m1 masters

The first book of m2e only had about half the models and half the masters that had been released so far in m1.5. I remember because I was playing Lucius (just a hench then but functioning much like a master already) and McCabe, neither which was in m2e at release but came a year later if you consider when their beta started. Hoffman was also a book 2 rerelease in m2e.

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22 hours ago, lusciousmccabe said:

I'd kind of prefer if they went back to the older design philosophy of certain masters being your go to picks in certain scenarios but subpar in others so you have to switch between them.

If they made it actually work that is. :)

That would definitely add some variety at tourneys, although then you might have a situation where "Oh, the scenario is Ours!, he's playing Neverborn, so he's going to take X master..."

14 hours ago, secret apprentice said:

With the only masters I own being Lilith and Lynch, 3E is looking like my nightmare scenario. I have little interest in playing Nekima, but my collection is mostly nephilim and brilliance models so I feel like I'm going to effectively have to start buying malifaux over if I want to play Neverborn (which I do.) 

You could easily put Lilith on a 50mm base and use her as Nekima... One of my Lilith's has Alt Barbaros' wings (gave him 40k Tyranid gargoyle wings) and the female nephilim head, so she'd make an awesome Nekima proxy.  My other Lilith has Titania's wings & the Tooth's sword, so would make an excellent Titania Proxy.  Playstyle-wise, I agree that Titania seems to have picked up the terrain tricks (which is good as it's heavily part of her fluff).

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