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First feelings M3E


voranth

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7 hours ago, Tickle Monster said:

I always thought that Titania plus Pandora (particularly summoning Pandora) would be a devastating combo.

With all the wp duels titania and her crew can put on an opponent adding misery to the mix as well as the poltergeists debuff would be super powerful. 

In M3E, Misery procs on the opponent cheating cards, not failing Wp duels.

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I know. I was writing regarding the rules as they stand. However depending on how much damage the misery ability will do in the new edition it could still cause an opponent to make some hard choices. 

I am a little dubious as to how effective misery will be in the next edition. If it only deals one damage it will be next to useless. It may turn out that it deals more than just one in which case it will be more useful. I have a feeling that sorrows may get a bit of a rework as they are essentially most useful as a means to stack multiple misery auras. If misery gets a nerf then they will be a bit useless for that purpose. 

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14 hours ago, Tickle Monster said:

I always thought that Titania plus Pandora (particularly summoning Pandora) would be a devastating combo.

With all the wp duels titania and her crew can put on an opponent adding misery to the mix as well as the poltergeists debuff would be super powerful. 

Assuming that's how they both work in M3E that would be amazing

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9 hours ago, AngelRogue said:

Any theories on what's to happen with Primordial Magic? Now just a minion? 

I have been thinking about that too. My hope is that the primordial magic can be taken instead of a regular totem. 

Also has anyone got any idea what will happen with the Dreamer and his daydreams? How many will he get for free? 

Also will you get a voodoo doll for free or will it have to be summoned like it is now? 

I hope that the Gorar will be tweaked a bit. As he stands he is a bit useless for the points. 

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3 hours ago, Tickle Monster said:

I have been thinking about that too. My hope is that the primordial magic can be taken instead of a regular totem. 

Also has anyone got any idea what will happen with the Dreamer and his daydreams? How many will he get for free? 

Also will you get a voodoo doll for free or will it have to be summoned like it is now? 

I hope that the Gorar will be tweaked a bit. As he stands he is a bit useless for the points. 

I expect zoradia can summon a new doll as she can now, but she'll start with one, as she can now. Not sure how the multiple totems will go, but at the moment every master that can have multiple of its totem can summon copies of  the totem. 

I thought I read somewhere they aren't doing generic totems so perhaps the magic just becomes a minion, or nekima's totem. 

And all models will have different rules, even if they do largely the same thing, so even if the gorar still does what the current one does, numbers and mechanics will change. 

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On 7/27/2018 at 4:19 PM, AngelRogue said:

I'm excited about 3e. I doubt Lilith is gone forever. Maybe her role will switch and be henchman to a different NB Master to get a chance at Nekima again. Titania perhaps? I also enjoy how it seems like the NB are getting ready even more for a civil war. Titania building up allegiances and such. 

I keep thinking that Lilith will return at the head of a new faction hell bent on taking down Titania and Nekima.

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 I know that this thread is titled "first feelings" but I am going to write about how I feel about how I feel about the changes now that I have had a little more time to consider them. 

Firstly I am still sore about losing lilith, Collodi and lynch. 

Llfe goes on. 

Nekima.

Obviously she is going to be a big ol' beatstick but I am interested to find out what else she will be able to do. Will there be scope to run a grow list? Could a Nephilim grow list finally be competitive? I hope so. 

Titania. 

As it stands she is one of the hardest models in the game to kill. I hope that this will still be the case. Her crew will be able to turn corpse markers into scheme markers which will be very powerful against Resser crews and anyone else who needs corpse markers to function. The germinate ability looks cool and will be handy against incoming shooting. I will be keen to see if her crew will retain the ability to drop scheme markers like confetti. 

Pandora. 

My favourite girl is going to work a little differently in M3E. Being able to control an opponents order of activation by tossing a card or pass token seems cool but I am worried that she will lose some of the mobility she gained from winning those incite actions. 

Initially I was disappointed with the change to the misery ability. Reading the description it seems like most of her crew will have it. As someone else pointed out misery may be of limited use as an opponent will only be able to cheat so many times in a turn and will only cheat when absolutely necessary. The true value of misery will only be known when it is revealed how wide the misery auras are and how much damage it will deal.  

Euripides. 

I can't wait to see what this guy brings. . His crew can flip from the discard pile! That is going to be ridiculously good. 

Zoraida 

The penetrating stench ability of the swampfiends sounds really good. She has become one of my favourite masters of later. The new crew selection rules should give her a decent range of swamp critters to choose from. I am looking forward to playing with her. 

The Dreamer. 

I will be interested to see how his new summoning mechanism works in the new edition. His crew being able to heal by being near dream tokens sounds like a cool mechanic. Interestingly there was no mention of chompy in the Dreamer's write up. I hope he is not going to become another M3E casualty. I doubt he will be but I'm still concerned. Also I hope that Alps will get a reworking and become more viable. Of all the proposed changes to masters in M3E I am most excited by the changes to the Dreamer. 

Lucius. 

I have never played Lucius as he has always seemed to be a little underwhelming to me. His crew looks like it will deliver some good card cycling but I am still not sold on it and remain underwhelmed . Hopefully I will be wrong. 

Marcus. 

I daresay that Marcus will become the Neverborn master with the largest recruiting pool (other than perhaps Zoraida). I must say that I am intruiged by the new possibilities Marcus will add to the faction but I am not yet as excited as I am about some of the other changes in the pipeline. 

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5 hours ago, (Keenan) said:

If Chompy is out, there's a good chance I'm out too.  I like Dreamer and the fluff and all, but Nightmare edition Chompy was one of the models that got me to buy into the game way back when.  That said, I doubt the company would get rid of him.  

I agree but I just think it's weird that he wasn't mentioned in the Dreamer's write up. My guess is that he may become a henchman. 

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I very much doubt Chompy will be out of the game. He is a large part of Dreamer's identity in Malifaux. Removing him would, in my opinion, be like removing one of the Victorias. And there has been nothing in the background suggesting he would be gone. On the contrary, he was very active in the events leading up to M3E. He might be getting different mechanics or something, but I don't think he will become Dead man's hand.

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I'm personally hoping that the growing up and full summoner sections hint towards being able to summon in Chompy. He's one of my fav models in the game because he just looks intimidating, the kind of "I don't want to mess with this guy" intimidating. Unfortunately I can barely use him now as I mostly play summoning Dreamer.

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My 2 cents about the NB evolution regarding all the latest spoilers.

The lost ones:

  • ·       Lynch: This was the master that got me into the game. He was considered weak in NB which I never felt was the case. I expect we will lose some of is thematic models to the TT (illuminated, depleted, beckoners at least). My personal issue is that I painted him with NB colours so it is not suitable for any 10T theme, even if I wanted to get into the faction (which I don’t).

  • ·       Lilith: I expected it from Broken Promises, so I am not vey surprised. I am very worried if the NB lose her guerilla/hunter playstyle. If Lynch got me into the faction, Lilith kept me in it.

  • ·       Collodi: This was the worst news for me. I am in the middle of painting his themed crew, with a lot of out of faction puppets I just bought. This is really annoying and worrying because I don’t know what the puppet theme will become and if it will stay in NB. It was very emblematic of NB.

About the new masters:

  • ·       Nekima: She was quite uninteresting in the fluff (brutal and simple minded). If she’s not fleshed out, she may end up getting very boring very quickly. Gameplay wise, if she has not got any trick it will be the same. If the growth mechanics get fixed, it may be interesting though. Additionally, Nekima has a more progressive approach regarding firearms & human-nephilim crossbreeding in the fluff so it may bring some interesting new options to the Nephilim theme.

  • ·       Euripides: On paper I find the concept of a frost giant prophet throwing ice pillars really boring, a bit lame and out of place in the faction. Let’s see what the fluff tells about him and how his theme ends up working.

  • ·       Marcus: I like Marcus’ and Myranda’s new art. If it had been M2E Marcus, I would be on board as he would bring a bit of the control / hunting style of play we lost with Lilith’s departure. However, the first spoilers show him as an enabler/support master so if the upgrades are not bringing back old Marcus, I don’t see the interest in bringing him in. Cooper would have made a lot more sense (evil clowns are awesome, and his fluff makes him dual faction anyway)!

 About the existing masters:

  • ·       Pandora looks interesting if the NPE factor is removed but the new Misery will be difficult to balance. It could as well be useless or OP depending on how it goes.

  • ·       Titania gets a part of Lilith’s terrain generation so she will likely be less boring than she was before (at least to me).

  • ·       Dreamer’s new token-based summoning looks very appealing on paper, I hope he retains some versatility and does not become a pure backline summoner.

  • ·       Zoraida has always been my girl. I hope her hiring pool gets tweaked towards swampfiends and voodoo magic.

  • ·       Lucius has taken a blunt in the fluff. Let’s hope he regains some of his old grandeur because right now he is transparent. He may compete heavily with Zoraida and now perhaps with Marcus if he stays with similar abilities as in M2E. I am curious to see what becomes of him.

Conclusion:

  • ·       3 lost masters, 2 with strong themes including one that is lost for sure for the faction and 1 for which we are in the dark.

  • ·       The horror / creepy / childhood horror story themes are far less prevalent than before which imho changes the faction identity in a direction that I am not comfortable with.

  • ·       The hunting / surgical strike style will be lost if Nekima is pure and blunt aggression and Marcus is not his old self.

So all in all, I am interested in M3E as the core rules will likely be made better but I am not sure I like what has been spoiled about the Neverborn.

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My thoughts:

For whom the bell tolls:

Honestly, not that phased as I never really played these masters that much... Don't get me wrong, I loved Collodi's aesthetic, that's super cool and unique, but child murderers just seriously don't do it for me... That's a huge no right there.

Lynch is cool and I really liked how he toed the line in both factions, but agree that with Titania & Nekima in charge, it's high time he (& Huggy) bailed. That said, he may team up with Mama Z & Lilith in the future to make a comeback.

Lilith is the one I'm saddest about as I loved her playstyle.  However I agree she had her toes in too many pies.  That said, I still see where she can potentially fit into Neverborn in the future with a new-Misaki-esque playstyle of burying assassin that also uses tangled roots and lures.

New kids on the block:

Euripides: I'm not 100% sold on this one, I think I'll wait to see his fluff & models (not that I actually have a choice in this!).  But he does have potential for greatness!

Marcus: Was so excited, I love his M2E playstyle, but M3E seems to have done away with this a bit, so that's dulled my enthusiasm a bit, but he still sounds very cool, so I'll wait and see.

The Survivors:

Titania: Her Grace, The Autumn Queen herself (I'm a slight fan!). Really happy here, all her fluff stats that she grows plants, from her first footfall in the Badlands sprouting a cascading effect into a primeval forest to returning an extinct species to life, creating forests is what she should always have had (and is possibly part of the reason of Lilith's departure). Hopefully she becomes a bit more plant-y and Waldgeists join her as they also have Germinate and fit her aesthetic.  Hopefully she has a for more tricks & depth this edition.

Zoraida: Honestly, not that fussed... Hope shes not such a pain to play against this edition.  Really glad Iggy can't set the Voodoo doll on fire for like 10 damage or Nurse's can't paralyse it.

Pandora: Again, I hope she's not the pain in the rear that she has always been and again, glad Paralyse is gone.  Hope she can still summon Sorrows as that was cool.

Dreamer: Glad Chompy's staying... For me, He's always been the star and the one I liked.  Hopefully he'll get more tabletime.

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On 8/7/2018 at 12:36 PM, Mason said:

In M3E, Misery procs on the opponent cheating cards, not failing Wp duels.

Given the change to shielded from armor (effectively removing the floor on damage reduction), it seems like Pandora is going to be pretty different in M3E.  All I want to know is if she’ll still be able to summon in the new edition (Summoning Pandora is probably my favorite crew to play).  Maybe @Mason can shed some light on the issue?

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Personally I much preferred dreamer before when he didn't summon, and I'd say chompy was largely removed from second edition. So I'll be glad to see more chompy, but less happy with dreamer. 

Collodi has a great story an potential, but I've not been happy with his rules in either edition for matching what I think from a puppet master, so I'm hoping the new rules makes him worth me picking up. 

Lilith will be a loss, but I'm glad to see growth back on the nephlim. I hope she returns somehow, but I assume not in neverborn. 

Lynch isn't a loss to me, because I'm not exclusively neverborn. I'm not sure how his going will affect the rest of the faction, I guess it depends on what he takes with him. 

It'll be interesting to see what is thematic for NB lucius, as I didn't really feel anything was from the last edition. 

Zoraida sounds more swamp and less doll than I expected, but it follows her last changes and more time in the bayou. 

Marcus is going to be interesting, he already made good use of the high number of neverborn beasts, so it'll be interesting to see what get his keyword. 

Nekima has always been near master power level, so I don't think we need to expect much change, we can probably guess most her keyword models. 

Pandora has always been a strange master, capable of generating great hatred from opponent, so will be interesting to see how her control style has gone. 

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Oh, perhaps my biggest hope for Neverborn is that Graves & Tannen keep their Nephilim and Woe keywords respectively.  Their new models fit so well with their Neverborn crews that I really think it would be a shame to not allow it in M3E, especially as they're going to be a general sale and not just a special edition like Niko's alt. 

Additionally, I'd also like them to keep Mimic or Lucius's  keyword as, like the doppelganger and changelings, fit very well with him. Not as sure how this would work, but I'd like Lucius to focus more on his Elite Division in Guild and Mimic characteristic (of which I hope Graves & Tannen remain) in Neverborn.

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10 hours ago, Adran said:

level, so I don't think we need to expect much change, we can probably guess most her keyword models. 

I have a doubt on Lelu & Lilitu as they have 3 keywords in M2E. 

This may make the front card really crowdy if they get the abilities of the nightmares and woes in addition to what is already printed on their card (provided they retain their abilities).

I wonder if they will become versatile or chose one keyword instead. In that case Nephilim being the most spread out keyword in M2E they may chose woe or nightmare instead.

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