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The loved and the lost


izikial
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As some one who has been naughty and not kept up with the lore the last few waves, can i get an explanation for the missing masters in 3rd ed.

the only one i loved that is gone is ramos. Not rules wise just the visual and fluff from all the way back in first ed, although he did get beaten in pritty much every story he was included in witch made me sad.

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McMourning now Ressurectionist only no longer Guild

Lucas now Ten Thunders only no longer Guild

2 new guild masters

Nicodem was killed by Lady Justice. Hes outright gone

Tara now Outcasts only

Jack Daw now Ressurectionist/Outcasts

Lillith has been imprisoned and like nicodem is gone

Collodi is not listed anywhere, no fluff reason known but appears to be gone

Jacob Lynch now Ten Thunders only no longer Neverborn

1 new ressurectionist master

Marcus now Neverborn as well as Arcanist

2 new Neverborn masters

Hoffman now Guild as well as Arcanist

Ramos in fluff imprisoned and removed

Zipp now Outcast as well as Gremlins/Bayou

Misaki only Ten Thunders, no longer Outcasts

1 new Ten Thunders master

Brew Master is Gremlins/Bayou only, no longer Ten Thunders

Dreamer described as 'grown up' and 'lord chompy bits' no longer mentioned.

 

Some have fluff. Ramos in Prison, Nicodem dead. But a lot we don't know yet. From minor descriptions we can infer the Guild has had massive shakeups while the Ten Thunders have grown in power and influence while the Neverborn has seen older characters like Lilith imprisoned with her Sister taking her place.

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Thanks, Its intresting hiw alot of the defacto leaders got removed (lilith, nico and ramos) i supose a leadership change is tye easiest way to justify a faction shift.

The upside of ramos being removed is that he wont get beaten up by every one he meets now :)

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Im happy for guild to actualy take the role of law enforcement, too long have they been the "good guys" who were corrupt.

I do like the little swap that hoffman has done. From the lone man following the rules under a corrupt govoner to the corupt mole under a good govoner, like he is a universal balancing force, a computer program trying to to resolve for zero

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Oh yes, I’m too excited to find out what finally pushed him to dual faction. Is it on Guild orders to claim Ramos’ vacant space in the technical trades’ hierarchy before the Arcanists promote an engineer of their own, or has he soured on the new Governor-General?

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On 7/26/2018 at 10:16 AM, izikial said:

I know im going to be alone on this one but i wont miss colodi at all. Never felt a kinship for him and always hated how skewed his rukes were 

You are definitely not alone.  I've never really enjoyed the theme, or the visuals.  Fluff was OK but not enough to push me to buy, paint, and learn despite me playing NB.

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The main problem with Collodi for me was he never felt connected to the Neverborn. Granted I started with 2E so I don’t know his fluff before that. Same reason I’m fine with Lynch losing dual faction, another master I never felt was really connected to the faction.

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Previous Fluff

McMourning revealed he was a Rezzer by attacking Lady Justice during a ritual that would have sealed the Grave Spirit's power (and end necromancy in Malifaux).

Lilith was mortally wounded by Nekima during the Nephilim Civil War. Nightmare and Zoriada saved her by tossing her into Nytheria. It was heavily implied that she will become undead and would have preferred death.

Yan Lo manipulated Lady Justice and Nicodem for a fight to the death and a vote was held last GenCon. Lady Justice won and Nicodem was killed in the battle.

Ramos was arrested by Sonia. This was a good thing as he was (unknowingly) trying to unleash a Tyrant (Witness if I recall right) believing there was a Soulstone he could . Less good is that it was sealed beneath ice and there was a magical battle invovling Sonia.

Misaki killed her father and took complete control of the Ten Thunders.

Zipp had issues with the vote for the Gremlin General and left before the vote which was apparently him going Outcast as well. Oddly, Zoriada who was thrown out is still a Bayou Master, and Lenny who became the Gremlin General is not a Master.

I forget the specifics, but the Brewmaster has been questioning his relationship with the Ten Thunders for a while worrying he was selling out his people for the power they gave him.

Hoffman's introduction story seemed to set up him up as an Arcanist/Guild Master. So, this was more an inevitability.

ME3 Blubs

Jakob apparently sees Nekima's leadership as a sign that he should move on.

The new Governor-General has fired McCabe for some yet unrevealed reason. Though someone like McCabe probably wouldn't have been too comfortable under the Governor-General.

Unknown

Collodi

Tara (though she only had a tenuous relationship with them at best)

Marcus (technically, the blurb says he makes an agreement with Titania, but without a reason why, I'm throwing him in this category)

Jack Daw (he always fit in thematically, but there is no story reason yet)

----------------

Concerning the Governor-General: He's not corrupt. At least, he hasn't shown it. That's not to say he's a good guy. But he's doing his job rather than just getting what he can out of it. Of course, Governor-General of the Guild means he's more than capable at being a monster if need be.

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@solkan The Collodi vignette in Ripples of Fate is where it had the idea to seek out its creator and/or other works. (Interesting in that it implies either Collodi doesn’t really grasp time, if it truly hoped to meet the being.) The TtB adventure Stitch in Time (time travel being the accident prone endeavor it is) has an alternate branch of time where Collodi was not embittered and instead went Earthside as a respected entertainer. TtB has this happen “during the evacuation” which didn’t occur, but maybe it crossed the First Breach earlier than that. This second is not considered canon but has sprinkled seeds of an idea that Neverborn constructs are a tad adrift in time as well as perception of reality.

@Parker Barrows Previous fluff:

Lilith was doubly wounded; before Nekima ran her through one of the ‘Banished’ (sort of silurid, sort of gibbering horde beastie) jabbed her with a wound which her constitution could not heal, making for the one-two punch dragging her to death’s door. There is now speculation that she is now vulnerable to the Horde’s random portals and may exit Nythera to Earthside, becoming the invader in an alien land she has dedicated her life to opposing (and an Other Side playable presence).

Parker’s newest grandest plot involves an airship. Zip has captured an airship with his universally known and dreaded skills at banditry. Zipp is about to discover his infamy is not nearly as well known by The Human World Below as it ought to be.

Governor-General Marlow and What’s Yet to Come: McCabe’s vignette in Ripples of Fate said he figured people in power needed someone to do their dirty work for them. In Broken Promises we found out Marlow is perfectly happy to do his own dirty work, suborning Lucius and speaking to other masters personally. No surprise that McCabe will also be considered surplus to requirements.

Crossover Speculation/Dead Man’s Hand:

Some masters which I would’ve bet strongly would have disappeared or gone to The Other Side far before some of the ones which did still exist (Sonnia as expert consultant on what the Burning Man truly is, Kirai in the employ of the Court of Two, I’m still shocked Alyce hasn’t shot Leveticus for dragging Marlena home from off the trash heap because waifs are worthless but competition is intolerable, etc.). So maybe it’s as someone said and the fluff hasn’t quite caught up to the releases or vice-versa. Maybe Ramos will be sprung Earthside and gain control of Titans over there to dwarf the memory of his Leviathan (I would bet the King’s Empire wouldn’t say no to his expertise in undermining the Guild and/or point out how much Ramos owes them for having been entrusted with training their future leader of men and machines Ryle Hoffman and getting him killed).

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On 7/30/2018 at 6:39 PM, -Loki- said:

The main problem with Collodi for me was he never felt connected to the Neverborn. Granted I started with 2E so I don’t know his fluff before that. Same reason I’m fine with Lynch losing dual faction, another master I never felt was really connected to the faction.

See I always felt he was more connected with Neverborn simply because Huggy was the real power and he was definitely NB.  Maybe that was just because my preference strayed to that faction way more than 10T.

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@Parker Barrows summed up the background for most of the changes pretty well. I would like to add a few things though...

 

Regarding Lilith's imprisonment in Nythera, it's worth noting that Nytemare played no small part in engineering the situation. He made sure Zoraida wasn't able to heal her and Lilith only realised Nytemare's true nature as a Tyrant the moment before she's chucked into Nythera. It's arguably the first time Nytemare's taken a direct role in the events of Malifaux aside from just following Dreamer around.  That, in itself, is pretty exciting. 

 

Misaki has been swaying back and forth on whether to pursue an independent agenda (Outcasts) or fulfil her duty to her family (Ten Thunders). With the execution of her own father, she's now very much chosen Duty. 

 

Hoffman certainly did always seem to dabble with the Arcanists, but I suspect he's been pushed over the edge into being a true double agent after accepting that his brother, Ryle, really is gone (as per his story with Anna Lovelace)

 

The Hungering Darkness's reservations about the Neverborn is with the Tyrant-killer Titania, not Nekima. While not a Tyrant itself, HD suspects Titania wouldn't care about such distinctions. Thus he and Lynch have been distancing themselves from the Neverborn and consolidating their power with their only other ally - the Ten Thunders.

 

Last we heard of Collodi, he was off to meet his maker. Ironically, it sounds like that's exactly what's happened to him. :P

 

Tara was never really a Resurrectionist anyway, so dropping out of that faction comes as no surprise. 

 

From his most recent vignette in Ripples of Fate, Marcus had heard of Titania and was expecting to meet her (and "assert his dominance" over her) relatively soon. Obviously this has now occurred and it's resulted in a "Pact" of sorts. Personally, I always saw Marcus as closely aligned with the Neverborn thanks to his affinity with the natural world. Becoming dual faction seems to be the natural extension to this. 

 

I've never thought of Jack Daw as any more a Resurrectionist than Tara is. Yes he's undead, but he was also the conduit that Zoraida used to seal the first Breach. The magic he's infused with is far more powerful and very different to that of simple necromancy (at least from what I've read). Furthermore, his followers aren't so much undead as "Tormented" - wracked by the guilt of their crimes (real or imagined), which is what draws them to the unique magic of Jack Daw. I'll be interested to hear more on Jack Daw's shift in alignment in the next book. Because right now, to me, it makes almost no sense. 

 

---

 

Beyond that, one thing I want to say is that I'm glad Nicodem's dead. I realise he has his fans, but to me he was the least interesting character in Malifaux. In a lineup of masters that includes a stylish-yet-demented serial killer, a comically insane surgeon and a victimised undead journalist, Nicodem had the dullest of backstories (coroner who becomes a necromancer) with the most unoriginal of motivations ("I'm going to conquer Malifaux!"). 

IMO his death is probably the best thing to happen to Nicodem. It removes the worst character in Malifaux (again, IMO! ;) ) and if he does comes back, it will give him a chance to develop a more interesting story. Even just being a possible disembodied Liche would already make for a great start. 

 

As for Ramos, I didn't think much more highly of his character development than Nico. But again, being imprisoned by the Guild in Vienna a least gives him a chance for a fresh start, whether it's with Malifaux or The Other Side. 

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An interesting thing to consider, is that there is more than just Masters we are losing.

I imagine that the Nephalim will be Nekima's keyword, but what will become of Barabos. Will he be in the dead man's hand, or perhaps jump ship to the outcast faction.

One henchman we know is not coming back is The Judge. Will The Jury take his place at Lady J's side, or will we see her with a new right hand?

Nicodem's crew become generic zombies easily, but at the end of Nemesis, a new direction was hinted for Mortimer. Will we see him as a versitile Resser?

As Ramos fades away, Joss and Howard both need new jobs. They seem like they would best fit with Ironsides, but lorewise, would they stand beside the woman responsible for Ramos' imprisonment?

Who gets puppets as a thing?

Lots of stuff to consider with the lore moving forward.

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On 8/3/2018 at 11:15 PM, Rathnard said:

Regarding Lilith's imprisonment in Nythera, it's worth noting that Nytemare played no small part in engineering the situation. He made sure Zoraida wasn't able to heal her and Lilith only realised Nytemare's true nature as a Tyrant the moment before she's chucked into Nythera. It's arguably the first time Nytemare's taken a direct role in the events of Malifaux aside from just following Dreamer around.  That, in itself, is pretty exciting.

His motivation for wanting her in Nythera are a bit unclear.  The prison kept Titania alive by siphoning the life out of the Badlands (thus making it the badlands).  Her undead status was the result of her pact with the Grave Spirit, and not Nythera's doing.  If the prison benefits Lilith in the same way, it might inadvertently weaken Titania, and maybe allow Lilith to steal Titania's 'life' portfolio if/when she eventually returns.

Alternately, if Gnomezilla is correct and Lilith ends up on Earth, it could be Chompy's insurance against the current goings on on Earth.  Last we saw the Dreamer in the real world his family was fleeing the destruction the Burning Man had wrought.  So Chompy offers Lilith a way out of her prison, by way of Earth, then promises to help her get home if she picks up his friend along the way.

Or maybe he just got tired of trying to possess the Dreamer and decided to try making Lilith his new avatar instead.

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On 8/3/2018 at 11:15 PM, Rathnard said:

I've never thought of Jack Daw as any more a Resurrectionist than Tara is. Yes he's undead, but he was also the conduit that Zoraida used to seal the first Breach. The magic he's infused with is far more powerful and very different to that of simple necromancy (at least from what I've read). Furthermore, his followers aren't so much undead as "Tormented" - wracked by the guilt of their crimes (real or imagined), which is what draws them to the unique magic of Jack Daw. I'll be interested to hear more on Jack Daw's shift in alignment in the next book. Because right now, to me, it makes almost no sense. 

Jack Daw is one of the hardest masters to pin down to a faction. He's not exactly a necromancer, but he's also not really a mercenary for hire either, so he doesn't really fit in with either the Resurrectionists or Outcasts. The only reason he's Outcast at all is because the faction used to be a dumping ground for everything that didn't fit in anywhere else. Now that it's the Mercenary Alliance (maybe Wyrd should consider changing the name of the faction) Jack Daw fits in even less. Considering his theme and primary hiring pool I think the best fit for him is single-faction Resurrectionist and just drop him from Outcast entirely. Even that's not perfect, but it's better than anything else.

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4 hours ago, Shadowdragon said:

Jack Daw is one of the hardest masters to pin down to a faction. He's not exactly a necromancer, but he's also not really a mercenary for hire either, so he doesn't really fit in with either the Resurrectionists or Outcasts. The only reason he's Outcast at all is because the faction used to be a dumping ground for everything that didn't fit in anywhere else. Now that it's the Mercenary Alliance (maybe Wyrd should consider changing the name of the faction) Jack Daw fits in even less. Considering his theme and primary hiring pool I think the best fit for him is single-faction Resurrectionist and just drop him from Outcast entirely. Even that's not perfect, but it's better than anything else.

Are the Outcasts really a "Mercenary" faction though? Of the in-Faction Masters, both Von Schill and the Viks are definitely Mercenaries. But the rest range from "questionable" to "definitely not". Tara was a Merc, but seems to pursue her own agenda now that she's with the Tyrant Oblivion. Leveticus, Parker and Zipp also pursue their own agendas - they'd certainly be happy to hire Mercenaries themselves, but unlike Mercs their agenda has nothing to do with working as a gun for hire. Hamelin is similar, but somewhat removed from the others given his status as a Tyrant. 

So basically, of the eight Outcast Masters, only two are truely Mercenaries. And even that might be called into question given the events in Broken Promises. So to me, the Outcasts are and have always a Faction of literal "Outcasts"; a rough alliance of misfits who have rejected other organised societies to pursue their own agendas.

 

THAT SAID... I think you're absolutely right about the difficulty in matching Jack Daw to a Faction, even if I don't agree with the reasoning. ;) As I've said before, I don't believe Jack Daw fits in as a Resser. But even as an Outcast he doesn't quite fit in either, not because he's not a Merc, but because he's more like a Force of Nature. 

Jack Daw is a very enigmatic Master. From memory all we have on him is a minimal origin story (he was a convicted criminal before the first breach closed, and Zoraida used him in some kind of ritual to seal that breach), and a piece from his vignette hinting at a link with the Burning Man. Beyond that, we don't know his motivations and he's never interacted with any other character beyond simply killing them. The impression, then, is that Jack Daw is a true loner - a being with power arguably equal to the Burning Man, but with no real motivation and only similarly tormented souls for company. By that logic you could say that he's a perfect fit for the Outcasts...except that unlike other Outcasts hes got no reason to interact with anyone else. Levi, Tara, even Hamelin has been shown to work with other Outcasts to pursue their agenda. But Jack Daw has not. Hell it's not even clear if he's capable of interacting with others in a traditional sense. Hence why I consider him to be more of a Force of Nature. 

Basically then, I'd argue that Jack Daw is such an outcast that he doesn't even belong in the Outcast Faction. In fact purely from a background perspective, I'd argue that Jack Daw should have a Faction of his own, the "Tormented" Faction, where he's the only Master. 

 

Having said all that, my conclusions are based on Jack Daw's background as it stands right now. A good story or two could change alot for Jack Daw's character development, which in turn could make more sense of his M3E Faction placement. And I honestly hope it does, because despite my dislike of his new Dual Faction status, I actually really like Jack Daw as a character. :)

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Leveticus started out as mercenary as well, there is a chronicles story where he is hired as a body guard for Ramos. Also doesn't the name of his place of business imply mercenary work? Can't remember what it is right now.

Force of nature is a good description for Jack Daw. This aspect also makes him, IMO, a very boring character since he totally lacks agency in any stories I've read, he is just drawn to areas and tries to kill everyone there.

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Captivating Salvage & Logistics! Doesn't really make it sound any more mercenary, but still.

His Crossroads profile blurb has this little bit:

"Whatever the job or item required, common wisdom holds that Leveticus is the man to talk to."

No idea if that's still accurate far as what's he's been doing in the stories, but sure sounds mercenary to me.

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