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Third Edition is Coming!!

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3 hours ago, SunTsu said:

It's for these reasons I proposed a middle way rule. I was starting to test an "house rule" about jokers when M3e was announced.😃

We have no intention of changing how Jokers function at this point.

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@Mason Do you have any information which you can share regarding the Cat boxes of Hamelin? I've been thinking of getting them, but the current investment is quite big. To play Hamelin, you need the crew ($90), Cat Princess box x2 (50) and Cat Herders (30) whichs brings it to a total of $170. I live in Europe, so I'll also have to add in a decent amount of shipping cost and tariffs, which will probably raise the total to €200+

 

That's quite a lot of money, so I'm holding off on buying until I know whether or not Hamelin will still work with those boxes in M3E. It would really rub the wrong foot if I bought it and He stops using the Rat Kings/ Rat Catchers/Rats in general. It's already been shown with different masters that Nightmare boxes don't stop any drastic changes.

 

Could you answer this question or is that already too much into the NDA/uncertain territory?

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Can we expect the deployment zones to remain as they are? I assume so but since I am looking at new mats, I would like to be sure, as 3 new mats with printed deployment cost a fair bit 

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7 minutes ago, Tors said:

Deployment zones will change. It was stated at the release page. 

yeah this is annoying for those of us with printed maps. i think current DZs work, do we really want to be closer?

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Finally caught up on this thread. Most of my thoughts have been eloquently (or not) said by other people.

There are three issues I have that were mentioned, that I'd like to expand on.

1) Card size. I get that there seems to be a reason for people wanting the larger sizes, but I'd much rather that the standard size be normal poker size, with the option of purchasing larger cards for those who need a greater space for larger text. Personally, I think the increase in art on the cards to about half the real estate on the front, is completely unnecessary (especially if visual aid is a reason), and is much better utilized in the books, than on the cards. And I think it'd be easier to scale up, than scale down.

2) Master Costs. I've read through all the discussions, and while I do tend to agree with the "pay for the first" (mainly because it's a lot easier to fix an imbalance by changing cost, than it is to try and tune abilities to make equivalence), and requiring a Master and a Totem to be a total equivalent cost seems like a frikkin nightmare (given the range on totems is so significant, from Huggy to the Mechanical Attendant), the one thing that came to mind that hasn't been asked or answered, is what about Henchmen? Unless there's a significant change in the way things are handled, it'll be even worse than the current system, where Henchmen were crippled as Leaders. Without potential for significant cache, this seems even worse.

Again, they may have taken it in to consideration, but I really liked the idea that you could forgo a Master, take a cheaper Henchman, and get a Soulstone/numerical advantage to compensate for the lack of quality at the top. And given there's several Henchmen that would be interesting to see as leaders that kind of fit "outside" the standard hierarchies, having it be balanced by them having a higher recruitment allotment, seems reasonable. I'm thinking Grimwell with the removal of McMourning ties, Hinamatsu as the new PUPPET leader if there's noone else, and the obvious Wrath. Unless Henchmen get a significant boost when chosen as a Leader (and no, Wrath's +1 AP and minor push action Upgrade wouldn't cut it), then we're back to rarely seeing Henchmen as Leaders. And if that's where they want to go, that's an understandable design choice, but I'd rather have the option there without it being a clearly bad choice. Spawn Mother leading a horde of swamp creatures without needing Zoraida, seems fun to me. Points costs to purchase the leader fixes most of those issues. Make it 70pts, and having to buy Leader and Totem, and that part's solved too.

3) Non-Keyword tax. Others have already pointed out the problem. There's a discrepancy in value between buying one 12pt NK model, and three 4pt NK models. If in the Keyword they're balanced at those costs, then you've created a relative imbalance out of Keyword. Two suggestions to solve it, would be to either have a small tax holiday (say 15 pts?), or a tax on volume, not individual models. So if you wanted, as an example, 10pts of Non-Keyword models, it'd cost a Soulstone. 20? Two. 30? Three. That way you're not getting an issue where someone wanting playing Perdita wanting 3 Guild Hounds, is paying comparatively more than 2 Witchling Stalkers, who is paying more than 1 Dead Rider (using M2E costs).

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Speaking about the henchman as leaders thing, I believe if they are the keader, they get an additional action per activation and the other perk is they can hire from any of their keywords without paying extra.

Remains to be seen if it's enough, but if henchman actions aren't that much worse than a masters and they happen to have a nice pair of keywords, they could situationally be a thing.

This assuming that masters only have 1 hiring keyword and it's the henchman who end up with possible multiples.

For example, Wrath could in theory have a crew of crossroads seven and tormented while packing a third action which at the bare minimum gives another alternative playstyle to what something like Jack Daw would do with tormented. Single keyword henchman like Montresor will be harder sells, but henchman led crews have always felt like a novelty or a system contemplated way to handicap yourself instead of a realistic option and I'm fine with that.

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I don’t personally understand why there is any desire to hire henchmen as leaders. I mean they aren’t masters. If Wyrd is going to go with a tiered system master should lead crews, period. Perhaps with an exception for formats where masters aren’t allowed. Henchman on Henchman sounds fine and dandy, Henchman on Master seems non-sensible, and doesn’t add enough to the system to account for all the fiddling that needs to go into making it viable. Same question I asked in M2E, If a Henchman leading a crew is as good as a master, why aren’t they a master? If the goal is to lead the crew with things other than a master, why can’t I lead my crew with any model I want, and have it be balanced, why limit your balancing mechanism to only henchmen? 

Personal opinion would be to just jettison trying to make henchmen on master games viable, and make henchmen on henchmen a variant format. Seems easier, better, and more elegant all round to me. Again I just don’t see what value in a mechanical system sense their is in trying to make henchmen on master games viable.

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