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30 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

I noticed it. I’m completely indifferent to it until I see the mechanics.

I’ve never seen a system do pass mechanics well. For all the issues with out-activation in the current edition, and it was a serious issue, every system I have experience with that has tried a pass mechanic just creates an equally serious but different problem. Usually making lower costed options worth less and sub-optimal to  higher cost options. 

Additionally the other common issue is it adds another layer of complexity to an already complex game for little gain.

I’m not saying this isn’t a good idea, I’m actually glad they are testing something, and I’m hopeful they will solve the issue somehow since they tend to have more controls to tweak given the architecture of the basic scenario mechanics, and the way resources work than many other games, but It is a very complex issue that often doesn’t actually solve more issues than it creates.

It’s all going to be about the execution, and until the mechanics are revealed past history with pass mechanics in other systems would indicate caution is warranted.

I admit that we need to see the rules before really drawing conclusions, but this is the time for wild speculation!

Besides, I have every confidence that Aaron wrote an excellent pass mechanic before he left, and then Mason rewrote it to something equally excellent.

I am excited. :D

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I am, personally, very much against the idea of "need an app to play."

Just because you asked for it, I will make it happen. 

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with allowing players to use apps to make lists in whatever fashion works best for them. I just don't like the idea of making the app mandatory. Some pe

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5 minutes ago, Lalochezia said:

Besides, I have every confidence that Aaron wrote an excellent pass mechanic before he left, and then Mason rewrote it to something equally excellent.

You know me so well.  ❤️

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12 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

The problem isn't the fact that some tournaments might allow them or that you can play with friends, the real issue is that when new books/models come out or game decisions are being made, the Masters in this sub-category are not going to be given the same weight, if any is given to them at all.

This is rather blind speculation.  There could be books/models that are entirely focused on the return of Lilith or Nicodem.  Collodi could return with an entire new faction in tow for all we know.  Since the Ten Thunders are no longer comprised entirely of multi-faction masters, the stage is rather set for a new faction to be introduced in the same manner.

23 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

I, for once, feel a little hurt after trading sleeping hours  and money across 3 jobs to purchase and paint models that already  had an undisclosed expiration date.

Unexpected expirations are always disheartening, but there are really few things purchased these days that don't end up expiring eventually.  Besides, the only models we know are truly expiring are the avatars.  The rest will at least still have rules.

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47 minutes ago, MunkyMuddFace said:

The token system is intriguing. The Pass Token to deal with activation parity sounds cool.

It looks like Perdita's crew can trade  in pass tokens to get focused and that Seamus's crew can take the Distracted condition to earn them. 

I'm wondering if it will be something along the lines of the smaller crew recieving some number of pass tokens at the beginning of the game based on the difference in crew size at the start of the game. Some abilities may grant or replenish the tokens but in general once they've been spent they are gone. That allows a smaller crew to potentially get activation control in a critical turn without completely removing the benefit of bringing a high activation count crew. It makes the decision to pass more meaningful instead of being something that you always do if you can.

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It looks like there's going to be a whole shit-ton of terrain markers on the board in M3E. There are 6 masters whose teaser text calls out the terrain markers that they use.

 

Basse - Dust Clouds
Reva - Pyre Markers
Titania - Severe Underbrush
Euripides - Ice Pillars
Rasputina - Ice Pillars
Kaeris - Pyre Markers

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4 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

It looks like there's going to be a whole shit-ton of terrain markers on the board in M3E. There are 6 masters whose teaser text calls out the terrain markers that they use.

 

Basse - Dust Clouds
Reva - Pyre Markers
Titania - Severe Underbrush
Euripides - Ice Pillars
Rasputina - Ice Pillars
Kaeris - Pyre Markers

God, I sincerely hope that 'Severe Underbrush' gets a name change 😢

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10 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

It looks like there's going to be a whole shit-ton of terrain markers on the board in M3E. There are 6 masters whose teaser text calls out the terrain markers that they use.

 

Basse - Dust Clouds
Reva - Pyre Markers
Titania - Severe Underbrush
Euripides - Ice Pillars
Rasputina - Ice Pillars
Kaeris - Pyre Markers

Well I mean, 2e has Lilith, Rapsy, Sonnia, Zipp, Kaeris, Hamlin, Ramos, Mah. So it shouldn't bee too mush more cluttered. Also in 3e descriptions id Misaki throwing down shadow markers.

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47 minutes ago, Malovane said:

This is rather blind speculation.  There could be books/models that are entirely focused on the return of Lilith or Nicodem.  Collodi could return with an entire new faction in tow for all we know.  Since the Ten Thunders are no longer comprised entirely of multi-faction masters, the stage is rather set for a new faction to be introduced in the same manner

I think that assuming the lack of support for Masters in Dead Man's Hand is a safer bet than expecting entire new books dedicated to their return. That would remove the whole point of Dead Man's Hand entirely.

These guys are gone except for friendly games. It's coherent with Lore, I get it.

It would be nice to be able to at least have these models recognized as official proxies. Lilith as a beckoner, Collodi and marionettes as Coppelius and Alps/daydreams and so on.

It's a hard pill to swallow but, if it leads to what seems to be a polished version of the game I love, it's worth it.

I would just prefer to be able to have an official use for models that I purchased and painted that's not relegated to a different format. And I highly doubt that they're going to ever release models that are meant to be primarily hired by a "legacy master". It wouldn't make sense from a business perspective.

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13 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

It looks like there's going to be a whole shit-ton of terrain markers on the board in M3E. There are 6 masters whose teaser text calls out the terrain markers that they use.

 

Basse - Dust Clouds
Reva - Pyre Markers
Titania - Severe Underbrush
Euripides - Ice Pillars
Rasputina - Ice Pillars
Kaeris - Pyre Markers

It's telling that they're duplicating though.  I know as a primary Resser player who's normal opponent deeply loves Kaeris, we're both confused and excited by whatever ridiculous Pyre marker hellscape we deeply hope we can generate.

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i'd rather that characters cards remain the same size of current cards, for the reasons that also others people before me, mentioned. but i really like new graphics of cards; also for designers, in the time they will need to add some info on new cards, will be enough reduce the image of character, unworkable thing with m2e cards..

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2 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

I think that assuming the lack of support for Masters in Dead Man's Hand is a safer bet than expecting entire new books dedicated to their return. That would remove the whole point of Dead Man's Hand entirely.

The point of the Dead Man's Hand, as far as we've been informed is to provide rules for models that are no longer currently active in the fiction.  It isn't to remove them from the universe entirely.  To me it feels like a blatant setup for a later release/return.

3 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

It would be nice to be able to at least have these models recognized as official proxies. Lilith as a beckoners, Collodi and marionettes as Coppelius and Alps/daydreams and so on.

Sure, I can see this for official "lore" tournament purpose.  However, these models will all still have rules as themselves, so it would then create a point of confusion in tournaments that are allowing "dead man's hand" models.  In casual games, we can proxy to our heart's content.

9 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

I would just prefer to be able to have an official use for models that I purchased and painted that's not relegated to a different format.

I would love to have an official use in M3E for all the avatars I own, but sadly that doesn't appear to be the case.  I can still maintain hope and keep a positive outlook.  In the meantime, they still look great and can serve as casual proxies.

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9 hours ago, Mason said:

Mercenaries in the M2E sense of the word are going away. They were very much a "feast or famine" issue in M2E, where they were either an option that was never considered (Hog Whisperer, Freikorpsmann, Torakage) or were in every list due to their strength (Burn, McTavish, Freikorps Trapper).

Instead, Mercenary is the name of the Viktorias' keyword (just like December is the name of Raspy's).

Torakage and freikorpsmenn werent in their regular faction's lists either. ^^` 

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27 minutes ago, Flinroz said:

Well I mean, 2e has Lilith, Rapsy, Sonnia, Zipp, Kaeris, Hamlin, Ramos, Mah. So it shouldn't bee too mush more cluttered. Also in 3e descriptions id Misaki throwing down shadow markers.

Most of those are through upgrades or and not a part of the master’s core mechanic.

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13 minutes ago, Malovane said:

The point of the Dead Man's Hand, as far as we've been informed is to provide rules for models that are no longer currently active in the fiction.  It isn't to remove them from the universe entirely.  To me it feels like a blatant setup for a later release/return.

Sure, I can see this for official "lore" tournament purpose.  However, these models will all still have rules as themselves, so it would then create a point of confusion in tournaments that are allowing "dead man's hand" models.  In casual games, we can proxy to our heart's content.

I would love to have an official use in M3E for all the avatars I own, but sadly that doesn't appear to be the case.  I can still maintain hope and keep a positive outlook.  In the meantime, they still look great and can serve as casual proxies.

Has it been announced that you can't use your avatars as emissaries?

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25 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

I think that assuming the lack of support for Masters in Dead Man's Hand is a safer bet than expecting entire new books dedicated to their return. That would remove the whole point of Dead Man's Hand entirely.

We don’t actually know what the point of Dead Mans Hand is. For all we know it’s there to provide a way for Wyrd to remove a model or upgrade from tournament rotation.

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3 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

We don’t actually know what the point of Dead Mans Hand is. For all we know it’s there to provide a way for Wyrd to remove a model or upgrade from tournament rotation.

I had the idea that only the Masters no longer present in the Lore are in the Dead Man's hand. I don't recall Mason mentioning a rotation. I do recall him making the connection between lore and  official tournament rules.

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2 hours ago, Saduhem said:

I had the idea that only the Masters no longer present in the Lore are in the Dead Man's hand. I don't recall Mason mentioning a rotation. I do recall him making the connection between lore and  official tournament rules.

I don’t think Mason ever stated what the point of Dead Man’s Hand was. He answered a question about missing masters, explained what happened to them in the lore, told us that there would be a Dead Man’s Hand pack of cards that would include cards for those masters. 

He then told us that while balanced for tournament play those cards were not legal for tournament use without TO approval. 

It may not be meant as a rotation scheme but it certainly looks like it could easily function as one based on the information that we have.

That’s all beside the point I was trying to make. I don’t know what the point of Dead Man’s Hand is, a rotation scheme is just one possibility. You made a statement about bringing masters back from the dead entirely defeating the whole point of Dead Man’s Hand. Outside of a handful of people that mostly work for Wyrd, no one knows what the point of it is and what the point of it is could easily change a year after M3E is released.

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If we're tossing in rampant speculation with our fondest wishes, here's my speculation that I'm certain -- *certain* -- that Mason took the baddest faction of all, the Crossroads Seven, and made Wrath a viable Master.  I feel it in my bones.  My hard-rocking bones.  :)

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15 minutes ago, Memnaelar said:

If we're tossing in rampant speculation with our fondest wishes, here's my speculation that I'm certain -- *certain* -- that Mason took the baddest faction of all, the Crossroads Seven, and made Wrath a viable Master.  I feel it in my bones.  My hard-rocking bones.  :)

Twist: Crossroads 7 is it’s own faction and all of the members have a Master stat card and normal stat card. Whichever member you pick to lead sets the keywords for the crew.

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3 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Twist: Crossroads 7 is it’s own faction and all of the members have a Master stat card and normal stat card. Whichever member you pick to lead sets the keywords for the crew.

Man, Third Edition is sounding better all the time.  😉

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1 hour ago, WWHSD said:

I don’t think Mason ever stated what the point of Dead Man’s Hand was. He answered a question about missing masters, explained what happened to them in the lore, told us that there would be a Dead Man’s Hand pack of cards that would include cards for those masters. 

He then told us that while balanced for tournament play those cards were not legal for tournament use without TO approval. 

It may not be meant as a rotation scheme but it certainly looks like it could easily function as one based on the information that we have.

That’s all beside the point I was trying to make. I don’t know what the point of Dead Man’s Hand is, a rotation scheme is just one possibility. You made a statement about bringing masters back from the dead entirely defeating the whole point of Dead Man’s Hand. Outside if a handful of people that mostly work for Wyrd, no one knows what the point of it is and what the point of it is could easily change a year after M3E is released.

Could you please quote Mason's statement that they're going to be balanced for tournament play? As far as I read, they're allowed on discretion of the TO. I personally think they're just gone to be coherent with the fluff, which is not necessarily a bad thing except for having models on the shelf.

I can't wait to see the pass mechanics, the keyword based hiring, the way each master uses its own theme. Everything so far sounds truly astounding.

Can we get a Mason Summoned from the depths of creative land for some Dead Man clarification?

Will the Dead Man's Masters receive support throughout future books (I.e. new thematic models/upgrades/Balancing)?

Is there any plan to have any older models used as official proxies (Dead Justice, Avatars, Dead masters)?

No sure whether or not to attempt the summoning of Mason through a sacrifical use (and long awaited) of my girlfriend's cat, or to play the Breachside Podcast in reverse.

Suggestions?

 

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Am I the only one worried that malifaux is moving towards more of a 50ss henchman hardcore type game instead of the unique schemes and strats focus type game, with their tease that models will be in the thick of it almost as fast as you can put them on the table?

I know it's probably over nothing, and i will surely see when the time comes, and probably be relieved, but the only thing m3e has me worried about, is that being able to engage faster results in moving malifaux away from its unique schemes and strats focus, to a more generic kill your opponent type game.

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2 minutes ago, hYena said:

Am I the only one worried that malifaux is moving towards more of a 50ss henchman hardcore type game instead of the unique schemes and strats focus type game, with their tease that models will be in the thick of it almost as fast as you can put them on the table?

I know it's probably over nothing, and i will surely see when the time comes, and probably be relieved, but the only thing m3e has me worried about, is that being able to engage faster results in moving malifaux away from its unique schemes and strats focus, to a more generic kill your opponent type game.

I'm optimistic about it. First turn was usually either a set-up turn for engines or a walk and pass for others. I think the goal is to have more interaction right away. I understand the concern for potential loss of focus on scheme's and strats. Fingers crossed!

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