Third Edition is Coming!!

[marius]

Interesting stuff, excited for most of it even if my favourite masters (Lilith and Collodi) appear to be riding off into the sunset, which is a bit sad as have been playing Lilith since first edition. 

Not sure why the Deadman's hand is not tourney legal if balanced for competitive play, but appreciate that a Malifaux is a huge game so some culling needs to happen (surprised that Markus is becoming dual faction though as pacts with people doesn't really seem to suit the alpha/loner personality he has in the fluff).  I assume this is a balance driven issue rather than fluff given the large number of beasts that the Neverborne have (also assume it is the same for Collodi disappearing from the main line up with all the cross faction puppets).

The simplification/condensing of the rules should be great as Malifaux is not very beginner friendly with the knowledge cap required.

[Rufess]

As a programmer I see the "Dead Man's Master is not allowed in tournament" is just a default value in case. In the programming if you would like to use a variable but forgot to set a value before, then this will be some error occurs.

In the Malifaux case it would be like a henchman has organized a tournament but forgotten to announce if the "Dead Man's Master" is allowed or not. Then some players may just take their dead master while others did not expect that they will seeing those masters. So what Wyrd has done is just set a default value here to prevent some henchman forgot to set value. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Rufess

[Da Git]

2 hours ago, Clockwork_Fish said:

Will Barbaros still be under the Nephilim keyword or will he tell Nekima to shove it and get himself fitted for a gunbelt and a sombrero?  😈

This sounds awesome! Would love to see a conversion done.

The Ten Thunders masters sound really fun to play in the new addition... Really liked what I read, especially Misaki & Mei.

I wonder if every model is going to get a key-word... Otherwise things like Samurai or Gatreux Bokors won't really find a place.

I also really agree with keeping the card size the same.  It will save us a heap of money and time as well as being much better for the environment (it's already sad that we have to throw out all the cards, at least they can be recycled, plastic is much worse).

[Mason]

8 minutes ago, Da Git said:

I wonder if every model is going to get a key-word... Otherwise things like Samurai or Gatreux Bokors won't really find a place.

Most models will have keywords, but every faction also has some 'Versatile" models, such as the various Effigies and Emissaries.

Versatile models can be hired within their faction without penalty.

[necroon]

A different name for Malifaux 3E's "Tokens" would be good. Tokens (in TOS) and Conditions (in Malifaux) seem rather synonymous between respective games, being a fixed list of general status changes that could effect many given targets. Using similar terms between your games is logical and all but not when it may confuse people.

That aside this is an exciting announcement! Looking forward to the months to come  The rules may change, and have changed in the past, but Malifaux has always been Malifaux! 

[Fetid Strumpet]

Mason, question regarding keywords, as malifaux has developed some crews have massive amounts of thematic models that go with them, Lynch, Titania, The Dreamer, M&SU and so on and some have almost none, Seamus has what, 3 belles, assuming that’s his keyword, or McMorning since he had synergy with a condition and not specific models.

Can you speak to what is being done to make sure every master has a sizable pool of keyword models to choose from, especially if at present those models don’t exist.

And in that light, how is the game’s model for expansion going to change based one keyword hiring? Is it by necessity going to mimic Steamforged’s model of increasing factions or new masters rather than general models, because each new book is going to be hard pressed to give every keyword new options. So if it’s the same as it has been does that mean certain masters might just lose out and not get any new options some years?

Last question, is any attempt being made to balance all crew boxes as sold so that players can just buy two random boxes and actually have a decent game, if not an optimized one, as opposed to now where some boxed sets can’t even be played against another boxed set?

[Justin]

1 hour ago, Mason said:

It's the Neverborn story in Broken Promises.

Sweet! I was almost there. Gonna do some reading tonight! Thanks!

[Mason]

33 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Can you speak to what is being done to make sure every master has a sizable pool of keyword models to choose from, especially if at present those models don’t exist.

We went through the model lists and divided things up in ways that made sense and would give each keyword enough models to flesh out their options.

 

34 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

And in that light, how is the game’s model for expansion going to change based one keyword hiring?

I can't really speak to this at the moment, as we want to save some surprises for GenCon. 

However, I will note that we do have a plan in place with regards to further expansion.

 

35 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Last question, is any attempt being made to balance all crew boxes as sold so that players can just buy two random boxes and actually have a decent game, if not an optimized one, as opposed to now where some boxed sets can’t even be played against another boxed set?

We're keeping it in mind, but game balance and fun are the most important things atm.

[emiba]

Since there seems to be a bit of confusion on the matter, can we get any info about card dimensions?

[Dr Mittens]

If I could change one thing, it would be to have discount or budget on theme models instead of tax on everything else. It would ease list building as instead of keeping in mind taxes on tons of units and either having odd ratios or pushing people away from cheap off theme models (as 3, 5pt models at +3 cost is generally worse than a 15pt model +1 in most cases) you would just spend the budget/discount on theme models and everything outside your special rule is default.

 

This also plays into loss aversion, as getting a penalty feels a lot worse than getting a bonus, even if the underlying numbers are the same.

[SeymourGutz]

I don't usually post on forums but created an account just to offer this feedback.

Invalidating purchases in common practice (even if not totally due to technicality) has in the past and will always make me blacklist a mini wargame forever. This hobby costs a lot in both time and money so it's essential to be able to trust that investment will not be arbitrarily or cynically discarded. It's unclear so far if that will be the practical result, but the phrasing is concerning. 

There is never a good enough reason to do this. See how Warmachine handles story advancement and changes to characters while simultaneously staying rules legal. Personally I don't read any of the fluff and couldn't care less about background stories in a strategy game.

 

[Cadaver_Junkie]

8 minutes ago, Dr Mittens said:

If I could change one thing, it would be to have discount or budget on theme models instead of tax on everything else. It would ease list building as instead of keeping in mind taxes on tons of units and either having odd ratios or pushing people away from cheap off theme models (as 3, 5pt models at +3 cost is generally worse than a 15pt model +1 in most cases) you would just spend the budget/discount on theme models and everything outside your special rule is default.

 

This also plays into loss aversion, as getting a penalty feels a lot worse than getting a bonus, even if the underlying numbers are the same.

I'd have two prices for each model, printed on the card.

One for 'on theme'

The other for everything else.

 

That way, say, a Moon Shinobi could be 5SS for Brewmaster and 6SS for everyone else, whereas a Whiskey Golem could be 9SS for Brewmaster and 11SS for everyone else.

[ShinChan]

7 hours ago, 7thSquirrel said:

was more the "worked great" part. That change is the reason I'm playing Malifaux today  

Well, GW is earning 4 times more money from AoS than from Warhammer Fantasy, it has 6 times more new players than Warhammer Fantasy, it's easier to start in AoS than in WHF, armies more balanced... I could keep going for a while, and for the record I like more the old WHF than AoS (I hated AoS until this v2.0), even tho I'm going to give AoS an opportunity with the new rules, even if they dismantled my old Wood Elves that I've been collecting for 14 years.

All that I read for now, I like it. I'm still sceptic about how all this changes are materialized.

For those people complaining about Nicodem/Lilith/Collodi. I bought Nicodem 3 months ago and paid for a pro painted of more than 70ss for making different playlist with him. I didn't have the time to use it a single time yet, and I'm not complaining about it. If you want to play those models, just talk to your TOs and ask them to allow the "Dead Man" masters, I can not see the problem. They're getting an update and could come back in the future.

[Thedeadclaw]

2 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

For those people complaining about Nicodem/Lilith/Collodi. I bought Nicodem 3 months ago and paid for a pro painted of more than 70ss for making different playlist with him. I didn't have the time to use it a single time yet, and I'm not complaining about it. If you want to play those models, just talk to your TOs and ask them to allow the "Dead Man" masters, I can not see the problem. They're getting an update and could come back in the future.

Honestly if that's an amount of money you don't get upset about I think you're fundamentally in a different situation than those of us who are miffed about it

[LunarSol]

Generally speaking, if you play any sort of "army" wargame, the cost of a Malifaux crew feels pretty trivial.

[katadder]

Much as I wish it otherwise malifaux is not on par with GW games and due to being niche has a much smaller playerbase. Can't use the same methods and expect the same results so never good to alienate any of the player base (GW could afford to destroy the old world, a similar thing wouldn't work for wyrd), so people need to stop comparing the two and pointing out how aos worked (although needed it's 2nd ed)

I don't think the world is falling though and mostly from the limited info we have the game is looking good (although don't think it needed simplifying just some sorting out timing and elevation).

I do feel sorry for those who only have the dead masters though and hope they find ways to continue as don't want our playerbase to shrink

[MCOLL81]

Re: Card size (note, this is speculation mixed with some science)

Based on someone else’s estimation (another member of our community), the card size appears to be 65mmx100mm. 

Based on Mason’s comment regarding available sleeves, that estimation seems plausible, as 7 Wonders, a popular board game (for those unaware), have cards this size (or there about) and have sleeves available from at least two manufacturers (quick search, stopped at two).

[Polar43]

maybe im not grasping this correctly , but besides what I am assuming are a specific number of tournaments, you can still use the removed masters any other time.

I would think casual, lgs or with friends was 90% of games played, in which case, surely those you play with are not going to care or whine about your master choice?

Im not being argumentative, Im just trying to get a feel for why people would be very upset over what I imagine is maybe 10% of their gaming time

 

being new though, I may be speaking of things I know nothing of....

[Cadaver_Junkie]

9 minutes ago, Polar43 said:

maybe im not grasping this correctly , but besides what I am assuming are a specific number of tournaments, you can still use the removed masters any other time.

I would think casual, lgs or with friends was 90% of games played, in which case, surely those you play with are not going to care or whine about your master choice?

Im not being argumentative, Im just trying to get a feel for why people would be very upset over what I imagine is maybe 10% of their gaming time

 

being new though, I may be speaking of things I know nothing of....

Often, with many people I know, only tourney legal items are used across many games.
There is a perception that non-tourney legal = not balanced, regardless of true or not. I know I certainly fall in that category, although I don't really care when I'm actually playing the game.

Many casual gamers will not have that issue, however many will; especially if you want to finish the game thinking you lost or won because you played well (or not), and not wonder if things on the table were unbalanced.

Personally? I think we should wait until we actually have all the rules before making judgements, this might be a storm in a teacup type scenario.
 

EDIT: Although I prefer the standard card size if I had a preference, the new cards we've seen DO look cool to me 

[MCOLL81]

1 minute ago, MalifauxVE said:

Where can i found this article?

https://www.wyrd-games.net/table-flip/

[dancater]

So for me:

The good:

• Re-balancing and clarifying some of the table rules.  Really hopeful, its a great game with some flaws atm, hopefully the great remains and the flaws are smoothed out somewhat, I mean elevation....
• Key-word hiring is an idea I'd longed hoped to see, really hopeful.
• Reducing the number (and hopefully complication) of conditions is a good thing for casual play (easier) and tournaments (faster).
• The game is alive, progressing, taking feedback from its community and vibrant 

The worrying:

• Well the obvious is a new edition can damage what I love and introduce changes I dislike, but Malifaux 1E > 2E was a great step, so not worrying yet on this.
• The "removal" of certain models and masters, this makes me a little nervous, as a devout Arcanist losing Ramos stings some, he was a fun master and the question emerges what is the fate of the Steam Arachnids and Large Steam Arachnids to give them play time, many Ramos players own a fair number of Steam Arachnids and Swarms, hopefully they will have meaningful use (Hoffman??).
• While key-word is cool wondering what will happen the the faction system and will this begin a fragmentation of factions into a more this master/that master focus over the factions at the games thematic core.
• Cost.

But....

• The Dead Mans hand indicates that some time and effort will be expended on the removed models and the Malifaux world and story is highly flexible, Ramos may break out in the future, Nico may return as a revenant, many story options are available which may see lost characters return.
• Ultimately removing models does allow the game to evolve and expand and not suffer horrifying model bloat and thematic overwrite, I may lose masters or models I like but hopefully I gain as much or more.  I want new shiny things and this provides them while reducing clutter, bloat and retaining flexibility in design space.
• The key-word rework has huge scope for re-balancing individual models, masters and their crews and even factions.  This could really be wonderful.   
• Wyrd does seem to be planning to make access really affordable and I should apparently be able to update everything I own (rules/models) for free 😀

So overall, really excited.

Of course the big questions are when, when, when, obviously this is not answerable yet but the problem with such news is I am not by nature super patient....

Also offers some interesting questions for what the GenCon new releases will look like, while they will obviously be 2E releases they are equally obviously going to need to be updated very soon, one wonders if these models will be the first to reflect what Malifaux 3E will look like, have they been designed with 3E already in mind??

[MCOLL81]

19 minutes ago, Polar43 said:

maybe im not grasping this correctly , but besides what I am assuming are a specific number of tournaments, you can still use the removed masters any other time.

I would think casual, lgs or with friends was 90% of games played, in which case, surely those you play with are not going to care or whine about your master choice?

Im not being argumentative, Im just trying to get a feel for why people would be very upset over what I imagine is maybe 10% of their gaming time

 

being new though, I may be speaking of things I know nothing of....

Welcome!

You seem to be getting a grasp for things... except maybe the Internet, where knee jerk reactions are quite common. 😁

I won’t speculate as to why Wyrd opted for them to be out unless TO’d in, but since they have said the models will be balanced and given that TOs/Henchman are there to grow communities, provide enjoyable events, and generally want people to show up, I suspect many will allow them.

My advice to those concerned would be to reach out to your TOs/Henchmen and discuss it with them. They’re probably quite understanding and accommodating folk... After all, they’re also probably gamers with shinies of their own. 

[Da Git]

Something I just though of... They're releasing Graves & Tannen in their Neverborn forms this Gencon... I hope they can still be taken in Neverborn, even if it's only Graves with Nekima & Tannen with Pandora.

[Teluriel12]

2 hours ago, SeymourGutz said:

I don't usually post on forums but created an account just to offer this feedback.

Invalidating purchases in common practice (even if not totally due to technicality) has in the past and will always make me blacklist a mini wargame forever. This hobby costs a lot in both time and money so it's essential to be able to trust that investment will not be arbitrarily or cynically discarded. It's unclear so far if that will be the practical result, but the phrasing is concerning. 

There is never a good enough reason to do this. See how Warmachine handles story advancement and changes to characters while simultaneously staying rules legal. Personally I don't read any of the fluff and couldn't care less about background stories in a strategy game.

 

Fully agree with this...I basically bought a full collodi crew two weeks ago (yesterday received the notification that it was sent) and i learn now that it has been invalidated.  Wyrd apparently sticks to the argument that i can still use him for casual play or dead mans hands tournaments...while thats technically true, for me its the same as not being able to use them at all.  

Ive asked them if i.can present my purchase bill and whether i can swap those models with other models that still are going to be supported fluff and new model wise.  It would show some good will to people like myself in this situation (i really dont have money to burn).

[Sybaris]

If their rules are published and well balanced, i doubt many tournaments will kick the "dead ones" out. Some of these masters might come back differently,  for example Lilith was always competing with Nekima on the same thematic crew so now they'll be able to give her something unique, if they choose to.

As for the new stat cards, larger cards could allow for a larger text size, and that can make things easier to learn and refer to. Not saying to make them 200mm by 200mm, but larger than a standard game card could improve information "digestion" prior to and during a game. The amount of fine print to read to avoid being surprised by some forgotten synergy is impressive...and can be overwhelming too.