Jump to content

Third Edition is Coming!!


Nef
 Share

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Bishop has 3AP but he doesn't have the rest of a card that matches most Masters.

Sure but it’s all about point cost. There have been plenty of games where models like Howard, Nekima, Yasinori, A&D, etc have felt on par with a master on the table. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m mixed on multiple masters. I think we learned from 1e that multiple masters in the crew was a bad and often game breaking thing. On the other hand if masters are hired for cost now and are actually created with that combination in mind I think that could possibly help with the masters they will inevitably flub and underpower. It might at least let masters who aren’t seen as competitive leaders at least still see play.

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, LunarSol said:

Sure but it’s all about point cost. There have been plenty of games where models like Howard, Nekima, Yasinori, A&D, etc have felt on par with a master on the table. 

I think there's going to need to be something that makes a hired master less powerful than they would be if they were the leader of a crew otherwise things seem like they'll get crazy unless Master are weaker overall than they are currently. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

I’m mixed on multiple masters. I think we learned from 1e that multiple masters in the crew was a bad and often game breaking thing. On the other hand if masters are hired for cost now and are actually created with that combination in mind I think that could possibly help with the masters they will inevitably flub and underpower. It might at least let masters who aren’t seen as competitive leaders at least still see play.

I was hoping that they'd have Henchmen expand the keywords available to hire into a crew in the way that it looks like they have masters doing. I'm not sure I'm too big on multiple masters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While the missing masters is a big shakeup, I'm also wondering about their entourages.  If Collodi goes, what happens to the rest of his puppets?  Are they gone too, or are they now 'unaffiliated' or something?  What about Mortimer?  Will Barbaros still be under the Nephilim keyword or will he tell Nekima to shove it and get himself fitted for a gunbelt and a sombrero?  😈

Also, I'd love to see them tweak the app to be a bit more streamlined.  If the idea is to make the rules and cards freely available, you may as well bow to the inevitable and spruce the app up a bit.  Will I have to pay for the 3e cards if I've already paid to unlock the 2e ones? 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Memnaelar said:

My guess is because they're emphasizing story as part of the meta.  Magic rotates cards and sets out of the meta even though those cards and sets are still balanced

sorry. but ask anyone who plays older formats like legacy...newer sets are NOT balanced with older sets in mind specifically because of that rotation. but lets not act like a card game is the same thing as a mini game.

  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mason said:

There are!

Item one on the checklist, that was.

I appreciate they have more space for the art. But so many questions. Was 'card storage' on the checklist too? I have card binders/portfolios for easy access to my Gremlin & Neverborn cards and I don't think such a thing is available for 70x120mm cards. I think there are deck boxes, but they aren't very useful when you need quick access to an entire faction (i.e. multiple deck boxes worth) when you put together your crew. And are upgrades Tarot sized too..?

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a new player, I dont think I have the investment in 2e to result in being upset although my thoughts on lilith and dreamer for down the track may alter now.

The only thing i dont like is the card sizes, I know sleeves are cheap but it would of been nice to be able to recycle my current ones

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Polar43 said:

The only thing i dont like is the card sizes, I know sleeves are cheap but it would of been nice to be able to recycle my current ones

The only other game I play which uses cards is Batman.  The cards are the same size, but I have a lot more Malifaux minis than Bat minis.  That's a lot of plastic going in the junk drawer.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Mason said:

There are!

Item one on the checklist, that was.

So the cards will be different dimensions from the 2e ones? I'd rather not have to buy several hundred new card sleeves that are of such unique dimensions that they'll take forever to track down and cost an arm and a leg to buy.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Shadowdragon said:

So the cards will be different dimensions from the 2e ones? I'd rather not have to buy several hundred new card sleeves that are of such unique dimensions that they'll take forever to track down and cost an arm and a leg to buy.

Yeah, i feel ya. if they want cards of weird dimensions, they should just make the app free for M3E and then they can do whatever they want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a neverborn player that’s “losing” a master, I have to say that I’m super excited about these changes.  The new cards look great and suggest that there’s still plenty of depth.  I’m also more than happy to give up a couple “staple” masters in the name of flavor and getting some fresh blood in the faction.

Really curious: will the old Nekima models work for the master or should we expect a 30mm version in M3E?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok I'm going to condense all my moaning into one post and then be quiet.

1. Please don't make big cards, there's barely enough room on tourney tables as it is + I'll have to buy new card storage

2. I'm against hiring a 2nd Master in crews. It's like Alien and Predator, both cool but in the same movie... terrible

3. Please don't axe Collodi because puppet crews are awesome

There I'm done, everything else I'm super excited about

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am very much looking forward to the new edition. 

The biggest thing for me is the condition cull, I am so glad to see generic conditions replace the never ending torrent of model specific conditions that m2e quickly became. This turned me away from the game as I simply could not remember all of them and it made for a very gotcha centric, awful experience for me. I wasn't having fun, so I ended up taking a break from Malifaux shortly after book 5 dropped and that break quickly became the decision to stop playing the game until a new edition dropped.

I ended up playing Infinity where abilities, conditions and weapons are universal across the game rather than model specific, and if Malifaux ends up remotely similar I will be very happy, as I find this makes for a much smoother, pleasant gaming experience.

I wish more masters would have been culled, it's not too late Wyrd! (i'm not kidding, start with Lady J, she attacks helpless old men!)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Longtime player here, veteran of about two dozen edition changes over various games. I'm overall looking forward to the new edition:

Streamlined abilities? Yes. One of the things I really like about the change-over from 1E to 2E was the elimination of useless cruft, which 1E was chock-full of, which which 2E has accumulated.

No Paralyzed? Great. Paralyzed was way too powerful of an effect.

BUT, a few of the issues raised here are troubling to me:

1. It sounds like AP is going away and being replaced with a set of number of actions per model. I'm not a fan of this, as the AP system allowed a lot of flexibility in design and was easy to track.

2. New card sizes: Really, REALLY not a fan of this. It will require the purchase of hundreds of new card sleeves that may need to be special ordered, and create storage problems when looking for boxes and binders to use. Not to mention how this will-be off-putting to new players. Standard-sized cards are important, it means players can pick up card storage at just about any shop that stocks Magic. Requiring unusual sleeves, boxes, and binders that you need to search for on the web is a hurdle for new players to overcome, and you want as few of those as possible. One of Malifaux's appeals over games like 40k is how easy it is to get started. Seriously, cut down the art space and make the cards standard-sized.

On a lesser note, I dislike having the faction symbol in the middle of the statline. It breaks the statline up in a distracting way.

3. Changing crew-building from "play the faction" to "play the master" by penalizing the use of out-of-theme models sounds like it will result in cookie-cutter lists to an even greater degree than what we've seen with M2E. If you have three models that would be equally valid choices, but two of them are penalized for being out-of-theme, then only one of those three models is actually cost-effective. So you'll take the one and leave the others gathering dust. Every time.

One of the appeals to collecting M2E is that it is fairly easy to add a new Master to your collection, with both generalist models and plenty of themed models being useful for multiple Masters. Restricting crews to theme makes expanding into additional Masters less appealing if it requires buying an entirely new, full-size crew rather than just a new crew box.

4. Losing masters, both to the Dead Man's Hand and to other factions, is a Big Hairy Deal. "Only tournament legal if the TO allows it" translates to most game groups refusing to allow something as well, plus the likelihood of a "dead" master's theme no longer being developed.

Masters going single-faction is much the same. I play Guild and have pretty much the entire faction. Sure, I could continue to play McMourning and McCabe if I went Ressers or TT, but that means either collecting an additional Faction or restricting myself to a single crew build in the new faction, and neither are things that I want to do. I LIKE being able to choose from a wide variety of options within my declared Faction.
 

  • Like 4
  • Agree 1
  • Respectfully Disagree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I started this game with Lilith. I do have Collodi, but I don’t really play him. I was never particularly interested in Lynch and never bought him.

Losing Lilith hurts. However, I’m very keen to see where the story goes. With Nekima taking her place and Lilith currently sitting in the pit, there’s a lot of opportunity in the future to shake up Liliths playstyle.

For example, I’d love to see her go Outcasts. Have her work in the shadows with subtlety like she’s supposed to to once again bring her sister down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Allandrel said:

Longtime player here, veteran of about two dozen edition changes over various games. I'm overall looking forward to the new edition:

Streamlined abilities? Yes. One of the things I really like about the change-over from 1E to 2E was the elimination of useless cruft, which 1E was chock-full of, which which 2E has accumulated.

No Paralyzed? Great. Paralyzed was way too powerful of an effect.

BUT, a few of the issues raised here are troubling to me:

1. It sounds like AP is going away and being replaced with a set of number of actions per model. I'm not a fan of this, as the AP system allowed a lot of flexibility in design and was easy to track.

2. New card sizes: Really, REALLY not a fan of this. It will require the purchase of hundreds of new card sleeves that may need to be special ordered, and create storage problems when looking for boxes and binders to use. Not to mention how this will-be off-putting to new players. Standard-sized cards are important, it means players can pick up card storage at just about any shop that stocks Magic. Requiring unusual sleeves, boxes, and binders that you need to search for on the web is a hurdle for new players to overcome, and you want as few of those as possible. One of Malifaux's appeals over games like 40k is how easy it is to get started. Seriously, cut down the art space and make the cards standard-sized.

On a lesser note, I dislike having the faction symbol in the middle of the statline. It breaks the statline up in a distracting way.

3. Changing crew-building from "play the faction" to "play the master" by penalizing the use of out-of-theme models sounds like it will result in cookie-cutter lists to an even greater degree than what we've seen with M2E. If you have three models that would be equally valid choices, but two of them are penalized for being out-of-theme, then only one of those three models is actually cost-effective. So you'll take the one and leave the others gathering dust. Every time.

One of the appeals to collecting M2E is that it is fairly easy to add a new Master to your collection, with both generalist models and plenty of themed models being useful for multiple Masters. Restricting crews to theme makes expanding into additional Masters less appealing if it requires buying an entirely new, full-size crew rather than just a new crew box.

4. Losing masters, both to the Dead Man's Hand and to other factions, is a Big Hairy Deal. "Only tournament legal if the TO allows it" translates to most game groups refusing to allow something as well, plus the likelihood of a "dead" master's theme no longer being developed.

Masters going single-faction is much the same. I play Guild and have pretty much the entire faction. Sure, I could continue to play McMourning and McCabe if I went Ressers or TT, but that means either collecting an additional Faction or restricting myself to a single crew build in the new faction, and neither are things that I want to do. I LIKE being able to choose from a wide variety of options within my declared Faction.
 

Don’t really agree with this. Most lists that are for competitive play are already pretty cookie cutter with the same models being used over and over regardless of master. Even if the same thing happens that there is a list for each master, at the very least that makes a cookie cutter list for every master, thus increasing the variety of crews out there, as opposed to guild crew with Phiona, Frank, jury, etc...

  • Agree 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Well, there's a lot of words on the matter already, and too much text for me to easily read through. I'm very late to the punch, but:

Devs, Collodi is my main master, and Malifaux the first wargame that got me to buy models. Most of my collection is Coryphee, Effigies, Stitched Together, Bunraku, and a few generic good Neverborn models. (Lilith was my secondary master.) Hinamatsu being announced was the highlight of last October for me, and I was so hyped for buying her this month.

With 3rd edition's all-in focus on themes, thematic Collodi should have managed to become the viable playstyle I've always wanted.

Why should I even care about this game anymore?

Dead Man's Hand masters are not going to be allowed at most tournaments. Why should the Neverborn get 10 masters while other factions get 8? Dead Man's Hand masters are probably never getting support anymore. Let's be real, Neverborn got extremely few puppets before; why would it get them specifically for a normally-tournament-illegal master? Why should I care about a game that seems to want me to put my first-ever-painted minis on a shelf and never use them?

I want to be positive and excited about getting rid of vantage rules and streamlining play and stronger thematic crews. But why should I view this as anything other than a time to cut ties entirely and find a different hobby?

  • Agree 6
  • Respectfully Disagree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what size cards are we looking at now? Going to be hundreds of us looking to buy rare sleeve sizes and box's.

Nothing wrong with current card size, really don't need that much art for gameplay. Cards look over fussy compared to the easy look and use of current ones.

This is my main gripe tbh

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information