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3 minutes ago, Passenty said:

I think its a little bit insulting to customers like myself - I own almost whole nvb fraction+most of merc, what I'am to do with all the stuff I bought, 3 masters cut out of fraction, merc gone. And really if the deleted masters are to be competetive why put dead man's hand restriction on tournament play - the restriction should be only on world wide campaign which change fluff not normal tournament circuit.

Given that we have not seen official M3E tournament rules yet, the restriction might very well be to world campaign and major events only.  If everything is tournament balanced, I wouldn't be surprised if the recommendation for local events was an "unrestricted" format.  If I was a TO, I would run unrestricted locally regardless.  Even at larger events, I wouldn't be surprised to see both formats running.

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I am, personally, very much against the idea of "need an app to play."

Just because you asked for it, I will make it happen. 

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with allowing players to use apps to make lists in whatever fashion works best for them. I just don't like the idea of making the app mandatory. Some pe

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2 hours ago, RedHood said:

But Wyrd are in a totally different situation this is a niche game with a much smaller player base. I'm not sure doing a half cocked announcement of a new edition in which they announce they are panning many of the popular masters for no real logical reason was the best way to get people excited. 

Wyrd was kind of backed into a corner on the whole "half cocked announcement" by the leak that occurred. Some people were already losing their shit that hours had passed since the leak and Wyrd hadn't made an official statement about it. 

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2 minutes ago, EK A&G said:

Yeah, i mentioned that too, would be sorta cool. I dont mind triple-faction or 4-faction masters, doesnt really matter, but the "option removal" concerns me.

Given the apparent focus on thematic crews, I'm not overly concerned.  The core identity of the masters appears to be intact from the snippets of info we've received.  Generally holding off any concerns until I see actual rules.  Probably helps that I own models from every faction.

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10 minutes ago, Malovane said:

Given that we have not seen official M3E tournament rules yet, the restriction might very well be to world campaign and major events only.  If everything is tournament balanced, I wouldn't be surprised if the recommendation for local events was an "unrestricted" format.  If I was a TO, I would run unrestricted locally regardless.  Even at larger events, I wouldn't be surprised to see both formats running.

If big tournamnets will play restricted format no one will want to play unrestricted on the small ones

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35 minutes ago, Athiko said:

Even if hiring a 2nd master is balanced somehow, I still don't like the aesthetic of it, I think it diminishes the impact of having a master.  

I do wonder if there will be something along the lines of all models having 2 AP and the crew's Leader getting a third AP so that in a crew with Multiple masters only one of them has the third AP.

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3 minutes ago, Broken Clock said:

"we also cut down on the excess of Actions, Abilities, and Triggers to make sure the focus is on the fun and not on the memorization."

So they've reduced the amount of choices I make? That's not fun. I like making choices in a miniature game. I like triggers.

I read that more as a consolidation of similar Actions, Abilities, and Triggers as opposed to decreasing the number of those things that a particular model has access to. If you look at the front of the Order Initiate card that was in the article you see that she still has a lot of abilities for a minion. I'm guessing that most of those abilities are going to be found on other models. 

m3e.image.orderinitiate2.jpg?format=750w

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Regarding the announcement, I think they've done the best they can with a shit situation. I'm impressed by the package their team was able to put together in the hours between the leak and the release of the 3E website.

Looking ahead, it seems like there are a lot of people worried about their current collections being rendered obsolete, or about where to go from here with their crews. While there's not much to be done about the former, there's still plenty of time to address the latter.

To this end, I hope Wyrd will release the theme sets at some point, so that anyone wishing to expand their 2E collections can do so while also keeping their 3E setup in mind.

We don't need to know what the theme features will be, or how they'll work, but it'd at least be nice to have an idea of which models belong with which masters. Otherwise, anyone buying into 2E at this point is taking a real gamble.

---

As a new player:

I support streamlining the game while holding onto a lot of what makes it unique. 11 conditions is still quite a lot, and while triggers and upgrades are cool, you don't need them on everybody. Right now, there's a huge learning curve when it comes to memorizing your models, and it gives a massive advantage to experienced players. It'll be nice to have new and veteran players on more equal footing, so that skill and creativity might play a larger role in determining the outcome.

D&D slimmed down a ton from 3.5 and 4 to 5th edition, refining its identity and rediscovering itself in the process, and not only does 5th edition rule, but it's caused the game to explode in popularity. I'd be thrilled if there were more than 3-4 other people in my local Malifaux group.

As a Res player:

I think we're looking pretty good. Losing Tara and gaining Jack Daw makes perfect sense from a thematic point of view—Daw definitely belongs in our corner. Reva can set things on fire, which sounds super fun, especially when coupled with the new Burning rules that essentially require models to spend actions putting out the flames. McM and Seamus seem to be growing more focused, and Molly might become a more affordable option now that she's not focused on summoning anymore. I'm really digging Kirai's new Vengeful Spirits mechanic, and Albus' summoning system sounds intriguing as well, as does Yan Lo's Ancestor/Retainer mechanic. 

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11 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I do wonder if there will be something along the lines of all models having 2 AP and the crew's Leader getting a third AP so that in a crew with Multiple masters only one of them has the third AP.

Yeah I would Imagine so. In which case they would become more like a henchman which is not something I'm keen on the idea of

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5 minutes ago, Passenty said:

If big tournamnets will play restricted format no one will want to play unrestricted on the small ones

Since we have yet to see any rules docs, I find this to be a large assumption.  Most large cons typically have multiple tournament formats running within the more popular games.  There are already multiple formats in M2E that get use.  Warmahordes has multiple types of formats/leagues that get run on small/large scale.  I generally do not understand this fear.

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10 minutes ago, Broken Clock said:

"we also cut down on the excess of Actions, Abilities, and Triggers to make sure the focus is on the fun and not on the memorization."

So they've reduced the amount of choices I make? That's not fun. I like making choices in a miniature game. I like triggers.

They used the exact same language when they went from 1st to 2nd edition.  Go back and look at how hilariously, pointlessly complicated some of those models were compared to their 2nd edition versions.  Back then there were also people lamenting that simplification is inherently bad, some very loudly.

Not saying it's not right to have concerns, but it's likely better to wait and see before letting the panic set in.  At least looking at Rasputina's new card (admitedly only half of one card) it still looks like there will be plenty of choices to make.

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2 minutes ago, Clement said:

They used the exact same language when they went from 1st to 2nd edition.  Go back and look at how hilariously, pointlessly complicated some of those models were compared to their 2nd edition versions.  Back then there were also people lamenting that simplification is inherently bad, some very loudly.

Not saying it's not right to have concerns, but it's likely better to wait and see before letting the panic set in.  At least looking at Rasputina's new card (admitedly only half of one card) it still looks like there will be plenty of choices to make.

Even  more so given that upgrades are apparently still a thing.

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Lilith!  Nooooooo!  😧

In seriousness, the way they word it, it sounds like the legacy masters are at the tourney organizer’s discretion.  Unless your local Henchman has a stick up his butt this probably won’t be a problem.

Also, Collodi’s mysterious fate aside, all the milk carton masters can come back.  Lilith and Ramos are in prison, and Nico got his spirit sucked into a soul stone.  He’s a necromancer, he’ll figure it out.  😃

 

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5 minutes ago, Athiko said:

I think its just the picture, apparently they are the same size as the current ones

No, I think they're different dimensions. Earlier in the thread someone voiced concern over there not being sleeves for this size and Mason (I think?) said that the first thing they checked was to make sure there were sleeves available.

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2 minutes ago, emiba said:

No, I think they're different dimensions. Earlier in the thread someone voiced concern over there not being sleeves for this size and Mason (I think?) said that the first thing they checked was to make sure there were sleeves available.

Ouch.  I hope that's not the case.  I would rather have the character art cropped down or diminished in size to maintain a standard card size.  Storage, transport, and sleeving is so much easier with a standard size card.  Although, it might not matter as much if there is a digital card app for M3E.

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So, I find myself with one master (Lilith) canned from my primary faction and another skipping the fence to a faction I have no interest in (Lynch) cutting my available masters in my primary faction in half, down to Titania and Zoraida, although I guess I gained Nekima as well so I guess I'm only down 25%. For my secondary faction I lost Nico but keep Molly, Reva and Seamus. Despite this I find myself cautiously optimistic.

Just throwing it out there, maybe the canned masters will be tournament legal proxies for other models? Lilith could be a legal proxy for Titania (doesn't help me), given that Titania has pretty much stolen her portfolio and Nico could be a proxy for Albus Von Schtook?

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32 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I do wonder if there will be something along the lines of all models having 2 AP and the crew's Leader getting a third AP so that in a crew with Multiple masters only one of them has the third AP.

Not sure why we’d need that. Bishop has had 3 ap forever and he’s far from a problem. 

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54 minutes ago, Malovane said:

I get the impression faction affiliations will become more fluid and change over time.  Particularly now that its the Bayou faction and not Gremlins, make me think more non-gremlins will show up.  Like maybe Marcus ditches the Arcanists entirely and goes Neverborn/Bayou.  Feels like the narrative has opened up a bit in this regard.

This is a lot more doable in a game where players collections are more based on masters than factions. 

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16 minutes ago, emiba said:

No, I think they're different dimensions. Earlier in the thread someone voiced concern over there not being sleeves for this size and Mason (I think?) said that the first thing they checked was to make sure there were sleeves available.

Oh right, I'd read that wrong then, I thought he meant the cards were the same

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4 minutes ago, Athiko said:

Oh right, I'd read that wrong then, I thought he meant the cards were the same

I thought the same thing. Really hope they haven't created big cards just for are. We get that in the books, the cards are play aids and the new ones already look less user friendly than the current ones. 

Plus card protectors, deck boxes etc are all added cost when you own 6 factions 

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My 2cents:

:+flip for thematic hiring and hopefully this means end of mercs - one of the things I disliked the most was seeing Burt in Nellie crews, Trappers in Neverborn, Johan everywhere, and the like
:+flip for conditions: it’ll help simplify the game and it's a step in the right direction, even though indeed we’ll lose a bit of depth, but it couldn’t be avoided IMHO, it was really starting to be too much
:+flip for storyline progressing and faction reshuffling, it makes the game feel alive and following a story. It's a bummer to lose some masters (and some of the most iconic ones at that!) especially because I had Lilith and Collodi and I love them both. But if nothing else, this gives you a push to explore some other masters (and the new ones look very interesting!) which is always good.
:+flip for remix in playstyles: again, it makes the thing more interesting. Especially since many masters have now drifted so far from how they were intended to work: for example Brewmaster with Poison was sub-par, and to be competitive needed to focus on Swill instead, or Hamelin with Blighted etc.

I have now much hope for some of my favorite masters to be finally fixed and hopefully up to par. I'm talking about Ophelia, Brewmaster, Titania and especially poor Colette. I'm losing Lynch (I really don't wanna play TT) but Zipp is expanding into Outcasts and I'm particularly excited about Marcus - I was already on the verge of considering him as a simple Arcanist, now he's dual faction it's pretty much a must! Also, the new Euripides looks SUPER COOL. 

I do think balancing will be very hard and I agree with @Math Mathonwy about that. So I hope the developers will take the proper amount of time and yes, extend the beta as much as necessary, so that we come up with a good balanced product from the get go, rather than falling into many early erratas.

Unfortunately, if experience counts for something, I think the Dead Man's Hand masters are pretty much gone. Yes it's nice of Wyrd to give stats and cards and all for them, but I strongly doubt they'll be supported, and I think they'll hardly become tournament legal, maybe at the beginning, but they'll fall out of place pretty soon. I mean, some masters like Lilith are already being replaced (by the pair Nekima/Titania for the Blood/Terrain mechanics respectively) so they really don't have a place. 

I'm overall very excited at this announcement!

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