Third Edition is Coming!!

[mbowsher76]

Just now, 7thSquirrel said:

was more the "worked great" part. That change is the reason I'm playing Malifaux today  

Well AoS just released a second edition and from everything I have seen it is a huge success. I haven't seen this much excitement around WH Fantasy (non 40K) in years.

 

[Kerrida]

I play AoS.. because of the change from WHFB to AoS.

[Justin]

3 minutes ago, 7thSquirrel said:

was more the "worked great" part. That change is the reason I'm playing Malifaux  

I present as evidence elves riding a giant flying turtle:

https://goo.gl/images/7ihzHs

If that's not an improvement over normal elves, I don't know what is.

Anyway, my point was, I saw the argument "why can't they keep the game the same more like GW and the Black library" and that argument is kinda ridiculous when you look at what happened with Warhammer/AoS. Whether you think it worked out great or not wasn't really the point. (I think it did, in the end)

[Squirrelich]

Just now, Lalochezia said:

I present as evidence elves riding a giant flying turtle:

https://goo.gl/images/7ihzHs

If that's not an improvement over normal elves, I don't know what is.

you're lucky* you write damn good rules sir, cause our aesthetic preferences are very different

*although I have no idea how that involves luck... or why it is lucky that I like your games... but still... it seemed like the thing to say

[yool1981]

Count me in the excited camp.

I have one worry and I d be glad of Wyrd could alleviate it.

From M1E to M2E, the crew boxes changed very little with only one or two new models that could not be found in separate dedicated boxes. 

This resulted in a « compulsory » purchase of a whole crew box.

Could you please kindly confirm you are doing something more customer friendly this time ?

[Shadowdragon]

The only thing I'm not liking about this is replacing Collodi with some boring old giant. Collodi and his puppets were interesting and unique. Giants can already be found in the bajillion other fantasy games out there. Make Euripides a henchman or something and bring back Collodi.

[Coyotebreaks]

theres lots of mention of thematic crews, Im hoping that the masters crew boxes will not change from what we have already. I will be very annoyed if I have to re-purchase my masters so they have the correct crew with them.... 

[RedHood]

It wasn't so much the fact they eradicated the lore of Fantasy in creating AoS that made/makes AoS successful. Firstly things like the start collecting boxes were affordable ways to start collecting armies. They streamlined how you could collect armies, you were no longer tied down to fielding models from a single faction etc. 

 Couple that with a steady release of new kits/armies, releasing the core rules for free and simplifying thegameplay and AoS became less of a chore to play when compared to WFB.

But Wyrd are in a totally different situation this is a niche game with a much smaller player base. I'm not sure doing a half cocked announcement of a new edition in which they announce they are panning many of the popular masters for no real logical reason was the best way to get people excited. 

 

[Math Mathonwy]

16 minutes ago, Lalochezia said:

Sure. And that's what the Dead Man's Hand pack is for. They are available.

I think I saw someone use GW and the Black Library as an example of how to do it, but GW also blew up the entire Old World of Warhammer and completely changed entire armies around and it worked out great. What Wyrd is doing is pretty minor comparatively. 

I was not talking about GW. If you want a concrete example, take Guild Ball to name one. Their characters grow and die and get maimed and changed and so on and so forth. Yet they keep balancing the old versions as well as the new versions and all are allowed in tournaments no questions asked. You can't have two versions of the same character in the same team but that's about it for restrictions.

[Math Mathonwy]

Double post

[Gnomezilla]

2 minutes ago, Shadowdragon said:

The only thing I'm not liking about this is replacing Collodi with some boring old giant. Collodi and his puppets were interesting and unique. Giants can already be found in the bajillion other fantasy games out there. Make Euripides a henchman or something and bring back Collodi.

Until I’m told otherwise, I am taking as my headcanon the post really early in this thread that pointed out there’s a lot of overlap between 10T and Neverborn in the puppets, and a ‘new master’ we don’t know anything about, and the implication that Collodi is good with costumes and disguises.

[6SquaredStudios]

I'm looking forward to the new edition.  My gaming club hasn't been playing much over the past year due to other gaming distractions.  I still buy all the books and think that a refined 3rd edition will bring others back too.

Malifaux is a great world with a brilliant story.  Can't wait to see what is next.

 

[Malovane]

Just now, DocSchlock said:

Using fluff to justify wasting your players' money is a sure-fire way to shed goodwill. Most companies avoid that like the plague.

I really dislike this argument.  No money was wasted.  Old models/rules still exist and can still be used.  They had their time but are no longer supported.  Times and technology advance and the old eventually gets replaced.  I don't expect movies to be released on VHS anymore; the advent of dvd and blu-ray doesn't make prior money spent on VHS wasted.  They got their use and now we move on.  I don't expect old video game systems to continue being supported.  Money that I spent on those old generations was hardly wasted because a new generation came into existence.  CCGs and LCGs have cards that fall out of rotation or get restricted/banned.  Backwards compatibility is actually a rarity, all things considered.  I would argue that most companies actually embrace this cycle of decay and user turnover.  Planned obsolescence is an extremely common practice, that many industries actually thrive upon   It occurs in nearly ever entertainment medium that comes to mind.  Yet somehow, every time there is an edition change in a miniature's game this logical fallacy regarding money being wasted and purchases being invalidated surfaces.  

I don't expect anyone to like planned obsolescence, but I would hope it be understood if not accepted at this point.  I can fully understand and appreciate the frustrations and concerns of a new edition, but to say money was wasted is an over simplified exaggeration.  If you bought models/rules for M2E and never played a single game and never made use of the models, then I would agree money was wasted, but certainly not as a result of Wyrd's actions or the creation of M3E.  The fact that these "retired" masters are still getting M3E rules further invalidates the argument.  Its also been stated that they will be balanced for tournament play.  If the tournament is not narrative focused, I imagine most TOs will be fine with their use.  

[Malovane]

2 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I was not talking about GW. If you want a concrete example, take Guild Ball to name one. Their characters grow and die and get maimed and changed and so on and so forth. Yet they keep balancing the old versions as well as the new versions and all are allowed in tournaments no questions asked. You can't have two versions of the same character in the same team but that's about it for restrictions.

Guild ball is also a much smaller miniature line, which makes it far less cost prohibitive to continue supporting ever version of the character.

[Justin]

1 minute ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I was not talking about GW. If you want a concrete example, take Guild Ball to name one. Their characters grow and die and get maimed and changed and so on and so forth. Yet they keep balancing the old versions as well as the new versions and all are allowed in tournaments no questions asked. You can't have two versions of the same character in the same team but that's about it for restrictions.

I know. sorry. I saw the GW thing earlier in the thread and wanted to comment on it but didn't bother searching.

Maybe. But Guild Ball is a lot younger than Malifaux. The longer they have to advance that story the more divorced those characters are gonna be from it. Give it a few years and we'll see where they are.

Anyway, I like the direction Wyrd has taken. The stories have consequences. Design space is cleared up. We'll have new stuff to play with. I'm personally really excited to dive in as a fan again.

[Teluriel12]

4 minutes ago, Malovane said:

I really dislike this argument.  No money was wasted.  Old models/rules still exist and can still be used.  They had their time but are no longer supported.  Times and technology advance and the old eventually gets replaced.  I don't expect movies to be released on VHS anymore; the advent of dvd and blu-ray doesn't make prior money spent on VHS wasted.  They got their use and now we move on.  I don't expect old video game systems to continue being supported.  Money that I spent on those old generations was hardly wasted because a new generation came into existence.  CCGs and LCGs have cards that fall out of rotation or get restricted/banned.  Backwards compatibility is actually a rarity, all things considered.  I would argue that most companies actually embrace this cycle of decay and user turnover.  Planned obsolescence is an extremely common practice, that many industries actually thrive upon   It occurs in nearly ever entertainment medium that comes to mind.  Yet somehow, every time there is an edition change in a miniature's game this logical fallacy regarding money being wasted and purchases being invalidated surfaces.  

I don't expect anyone to like planned obsolescence, but I would hope it be understood if not accepted at this point.  I can fully understand and appreciate the frustrations and concerns of a new edition, but to say money was wasted is an over simplified exaggeration.  If you bought models/rules for M2E and never played a single game and never made use of the models, then I would agree money was wasted, but certainly not as a result of Wyrd's actions or the creation of M3E.  The fact that these "retired" masters are still getting M3E rules further invalidates the argument.  Its also been stated that they will be balanced for tournament play.  If the tournament is not narrative focused, I imagine most TOs will be fine with their use.  

Please read my first post...i literally ordered a full collodi crew and additional miniatures two weeks ago...i had to save six months for those...please tell how Ive not wasted my money.

-its clear that wyrd will not put further models out for collodi which is the most important argument for me

-i cant use him in tournaments (dead mans hand being a false argument)

 

[Math Mathonwy]

1 minute ago, Malovane said:

Guild ball is also a much smaller miniature line, which makes it far less cost prohibitive to continue supporting ever version of the character.

Take Eden, then. It has been around for, what, ten years now? Has over 200 unique profiles (maybe 300? Can't be arsed to count). Anton was in one of the original four starter sets and now the new Immortals faction turned him into a cyborg and a new version was released. They also updated his original profile at the same time.

Now, I'm sure that Eden doesn't count because it's small outside of France or whatever but the point stands that you can keep the original models up to date for gaming while advancing the story.

[Stepfan]

Well, I guess I don't play Neverborn anymore (I mostly just played Lilith). Cautiously excited for most of the changes I like the idea of more thematic crews.  I will miss playing with McMourning, but honestly the excitement of getting to use him vanished real quick in M2E. The Doug I liked playing in M1E (and the reason I play the game) was gone long before that, M2E changed him entirely and I never really liked the switch myself. Still will probably register for the playtest and like I said cautiously optimistic overall. 

 

I am kinda mad about Collodi though, my husband was decided to start getting back into the game last week with his favourite master and now he's kind of going away. I know there is this dead man's hand thing but I honestly have a hard time trusting in that. To many other companies have run off with that trust before.  Plus if you can't really buy the box and there's no new model support it's very discouraging. I get storywise the removal of Ramos, Lilith, and Nicodem who have been set up for this for a while, but Collodi just seems mean to me lol.

[RedHood]

Here's a point what is lost by keeping said masters in the game? 

We've been told they'll be balanced, they have acceptable existing models.

How lame a tournament is it that will ban their use just because 'oooo that character died in the fluff' who cares! 

 

 

[Math Mathonwy]

9 minutes ago, Malovane said:

I really dislike this argument.  No money was wasted.  Old models/rules still exist and can still be used.  They had their time but are no longer supported.  Times and technology advance and the old eventually gets replaced.  I don't expect movies to be released on VHS anymore; the advent of dvd and blu-ray doesn't make prior money spent on VHS wasted.  They got their use and now we move on.  I don't expect old video game systems to continue being supported.  Money that I spent on those old generations was hardly wasted because a new generation came into existence.  CCGs and LCGs have cards that fall out of rotation or get restricted/banned.  Backwards compatibility is actually a rarity, all things considered.  I would argue that most companies actually embrace this cycle of decay and user turnover.  Planned obsolescence is an extremely common practice, that many industries actually thrive upon   It occurs in nearly ever entertainment medium that comes to mind.  Yet somehow, every time there is an edition change in a miniature's game this logical fallacy regarding money being wasted and purchases being invalidated surfaces.  

I don't expect anyone to like planned obsolescence, but I would hope it be understood if not accepted at this point.  I can fully understand and appreciate the frustrations and concerns of a new edition, but to say money was wasted is an over simplified exaggeration.  If you bought models/rules for M2E and never played a single game and never made use of the models, then I would agree money was wasted, but certainly not as a result of Wyrd's actions or the creation of M3E.  The fact that these "retired" masters are still getting M3E rules further invalidates the argument.  Its also been stated that they will be balanced for tournament play.  If the tournament is not narrative focused, I imagine most TOs will be fine with their use.  

My Collodi crew is going to be pretty useless while my Mah crew will probably function fully. Imagine if had only the Collodi crew. The analogy about movies on VHS is just... bad. Like really bad.

Also, I spent dozens of hours building and painting that Collodi crew in the belief that I will be having it as a valid option for a long time to come.

[Malovane]

3 minutes ago, Teluriel12 said:

Please read my first post...i literally ordered a full collodi crew and additional miniatures two weeks ago...i had to save six months for those...please tell how Ive not wasted my money.

-its clear that wyrd will not put further models out for collodi

-i cant use him in tournaments (dead mans hand being a false argument)

 

I did read your post.
1.  You still have plenty of time to get value playing M2E.  Even after the release of M3E, it doesn't stop you from playing M2E.
2.  It is absolutely not clear that wyrd will not put out further models.  Collodi may get an update in the future.  There is also good probability that new models may be of use in his crew.
3.  He absolutely can be used in tournaments, at TO discretion.  This has already been stated.  You may not be able to use him in every tournament, but some use does not equate to no use.
4.  You can still use him in casual play.

Therefore, there is still the possibility to get value from your purchase.  It is entirely up to you.  The only way your purchase becomes a waste is if you never make use of it.

[Kyris]

1 minute ago, Malovane said:

Even after the release of M3E, it doesn't stop you from playing M2E.
 

Great in theory. never works that way in practice.

[Malovane]

1 minute ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Also, I spent dozens of hours building and painting that Collodi crew in the belief that I will be having it as a valid option for a long time to come.

This is your own fault based on a faulty assumption.  Further, the crew can still be used for a long time to come, as it has already been stated that it will be getting M3E rules.  Even without M3E rules, the M2E and M1E rules for the crew still exist and are perfectly capable of being used.  Again, I will reiterate that how much use you get from your purchase is on you, not on Wyrd.

[LunarSol]

14 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Until I’m told otherwise, I am taking as my headcanon the post really early in this thread that pointed out there’s a lot of overlap between 10T and Neverborn in the puppets, and a ‘new master’ we don’t know anything about, and the implication that Collodi is good with costumes and disguises.

That might have been my post.  Unfortunately as I think on it its probably unlikely.  As soon as I paid attention to the name I realized Youko basically screams kitsune/fox demon style character.  I'll be surprised if she's anything other than a kimono wearing girl with white fox ears and red whisker marks on her face.

[KrispyXIV]

1 hour ago, Mason said:

They will be balanced for competitive play.

I would beg, beg, beg you to keep in mind that whatever is legal "by default" in events tends to define what is understood to be playable in most games. 

Most local gaming communities treat things like banned or restricted lists the same as third party content and home brew content as generally off limits in the vast majority of cases.  

Having some, narratively significant organized play events not include these models instead of that being default may assuage a lot of concerns people have.