Third Edition is Coming!!

[RedHood]

So does that mean the dropped masters will no longer be part of the range? i.e Lilith will not be purchasable after the launch? 

Not sure how I feel. I'm all for streamlining the game as literally every response I get from other people when I mention Malifaux is 'ergh too many rules'. I particularly like the depth the game currently has and I sure hope masters like Lilith and Nicodem don't just disappear.

[Nef]

5 minutes ago, 7thSquirrel said:

The big things that are creating anxiety for me are "what happens to my existing collection?" and "what can I safely buy and paint at this point?". Please answer those as soon as you comfortably can cause I cannot do a thing moving forward without those. Getting back a commissioned Valedictorian real soon and all I can think is "will Sandeep still be able to infiltrate them?" and other questions like "what the hell do I need all these steam arachnids for now?" and "So... if I buy this Merc can I use it in 3e?"

*shrug, depends on how many "Tokens" they create. going from 30 billion "conditions" to 11 "conditions" and 10 billion "tokens" will be an improvement... but not really solve the problem.

1

Everything will be getting updated stat cards. The hiring system is being revamped via keyword, to enhance thematic hiring. Sign up for the 3rd edition beta to get more information. It will be starting shortly after GenCon. 

[Stranglelove]

[Nikshe]

Well, my Nicodem was nerfed. And now you say that he will be vanished. Bad news.

But Albus Von Schtook will be the part of the actual game now - that's good.

I'm confused and excited now. Definitely should be a beta-tester.

 

And sorry, but I will not buy new models until the release. My girlfriend has bought Mccabe's box for her Guild recently and she is little furious now.

[Molja]

Lots of work to balance all what there is as Math pointed out. And wise choice to not announce the date for stated reasons. Exited and worried for what we will see in the future.

Wyrd also continues their own way of naming websites.

[Gnomezilla]

...More people than I thought are sentimental about spiders. Not so much of ‘what about my puppets’, but lots of ‘not my steam arachnids!’.

[Kyris]

1 minute ago, Stranglelove said:

I, personally, have never seen one person hold both opinions. it's always one, or the other. I, for example. am of the opinion that the game should always, ALWAYS come first. If they want to write interesting stories without worrying about how it effects their game, they can always go the Black Library route and start releasing novels - which I'd be all for. But Malifaux is a game first. everything should serve the interests of the game and their players.

[Squirrelich]

4 minutes ago, Kai said:

Everything will be getting updated stat cards. The hiring system is being revamped via keyword, to enhance thematic hiring. Sign up for the 3rd edition beta to get more information. It will be starting shortly after GenCon. 

a whole lot of info that answered none of my questions Kai

[Stranglelove]

1 minute ago, Kyris said:

I, personally, have never seen one person hold both opinions. it's always one, or the other. I, for example. am of the opinion that the game should always, ALWAYS come first. If they want to write interesting stories without worrying about how it effects their game, they can always go the Black Library route and start releasing novels - which I'd be all for. But Malifaux is a game first. everything should serve the interests of the game and their players.

Then they won't have a problem because all the removed characters will still have rules.

[Nef]

Just now, 7thSquirrel said:

a whole lot of info that answered none of my questions Kai

Not ready to talk about too much more yet

[SAYNE]

Just now, Kyris said:

I, personally, have never seen one person hold both opinions. it's always one, or the other. I, for example. am of the opinion that the game should always, ALWAYS come first. If they want to write interesting stories without worrying about how it effects their game, they can always go the Black Library route and start releasing novels - which I'd be all for. But Malifaux is a game first. everything should serve the interests of the game and their players.

True, but without a rather painful story, the two are mutually exclusive where Death is concerned, unless EVERYONE eventually joins the filthy Ressers (lol). And the fact that it is a game does not detract that it is also a Hobby, and a story, and at this point a universe. All of those things are equally important to what Wyrd envisions, otherwise they probably wouldn't bother.

[Squirrelich]

2 minutes ago, Kai said:

Not ready to talk about too much more yet

Yup, I get it. Why my original post asked "you" (in sense of Wyrd as an entity) to answer those question as soon as you comfortably can.

Also, I just like giving you crap.

[Kyris]

Just now, Stranglelove said:

Then they won't have a problem because all the removed characters will still have rules.

that are entirely optional up to the TO; so there's almost no point in learning them or getting good at them depending on the local meta and scene.

and then there's removing factions from a lot of people, such as almost every 10T's master. Even if they're trying to go more thematic-crew rather than faction based, that *will* have consequences for the tournament scene.

[Fetid Strumpet]

1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said:

This seems like a nightmare to properly balance? Like a completely impossible nightmare. I mean, how many profiles do we have currently? 500 or so? And then all the new profiles?

Also, will the obsolete crews be ever revisited? So if, say, Collodi is messed up balance-wise, will she be in such a state forever?

I do very much like the sound of simplifying things a bit. Making themes more central is probably good for balance but kinda dangerous in that some Masters might end up with very tight crews with minimal variation. OTOH that's probably already the case so maybe that's not any worse than it is now.

I guess I'm cautiously optimistic but the balancing seems utterly impossible.

I’m not sure that isn’t the case now.  For all the talk of wanting variety the same models showed up pretty much all the time. The best models with the best masters show up all the time. At least this way, if they get the master balance right that is, even if you see the same models with the same master you might actually see different models with different masters. I’m all for that personally.

[Stranglelove]

2 minutes ago, Kyris said:

that are entirely optional up to the TO; so there's almost no point in learning them or getting good at them depending on the local meta and scene.

and then there's removing factions from a lot of people, such as almost every 10T's master. Even if they're trying to go more thematic-crew rather than faction based, that *will* have consequences for the tournament scene.

The tournaments are based around the evolving story of the game, so the intractable problem remains. Wyrd either keeps everything stagnant or they risk disappointing players by having lasting effects on characters. It's the Kobayashi Maru of game development. 

[cbtb11235813]

4 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

...More people than I thought are sentimental about spiders. Not so much of ‘what about my puppets’, but lots of ‘not my steam arachnids!’.

I am incredibly sentimental over my spiders. I am very, very bummed that Ramos is now only a DeadMan Master, as he is my first and favorite. To the point that players in adjacent metas say "Oh, so you are the spider guy" when meeting me. I hope that the "removed" masters are generally still available to play, because Malifaux without my favorite mad scientist is a sad prospect indeed

[Bigmike]

Every time Malifaux starts to feel "Meh" to me, they do something like this and I am pulled right back in.

While I will miss some of these masters having the spotlight, I am so excited to see what you have in store for us.

[Kyris]

1 minute ago, Stranglelove said:

The tournaments are based around the evolving story of the game, so the intractable problem remains. Wyrd either keeps everything stagnant or they risk disappointing players by having lasting effects on characters. It's the Kobayashi Maru of game development. 

weird. Here I was under the impression that tournaments for a game were based around the gameplay..

[Rufess]

(1)AP and (0)AP actions seem to be replaced by the terms (regular) action and bonus action. Is this mean that we are losing the (2)AP and (3)AP action like flurry or Rapid Fire? I think the AP system is a clever system to normalize the effect of an action. I would say it is the 3rd important mechanism, just after Fate Deck and S&S, that makes the game so unique.

[Fetid Strumpet]

That’s the one element I’m also torn on. I’ve been very meh to Malifaux since broken Promises, but this is very interesting, especially since aside from killing masters from the game I approve of everything  they previewed.

Really not certain how I feel about removing masters from playability. I can see them not being part of the story, not sure I like not having them be playable since you alienate those who might have gotten into the game because of that master. 

[Justin]

8 minutes ago, Kyris said:

I, personally, have never seen one person hold both opinions. it's always one, or the other. I, for example. am of the opinion that the game should always, ALWAYS come first. If they want to write interesting stories without worrying about how it effects their game, they can always go the Black Library route and start releasing novels - which I'd be all for. But Malifaux is a game first. everything should serve the interests of the game and their players.

Well, I think a strong argument can be made that is *is* in the interest of the game. Design space is a thing. Only so many masters can exist before they start stepping on each other's toes. And if Nicodem had to go so we could get something new, that is in the interest of the game. Stagnation is death.

That said, I reject the notion that you should sacrifice story or art in the interest of game mechanics. I think that the best games have all of those things working together fluidly. Would you play a card game on blank slips of paper that have nothing but rules printed on them? No? Then the art and aesthetics clearly add something to the game. Would you play Malifaux if the models had no names or backstories? No? Then clearly the story enhances the game. The game is at its best when the mechanics, aesthetics, and story are all flowing together, influencing each other. It is a game first, sure, but story is *part* of that game.

[Kyris]

3 minutes ago, Lalochezia said:

Well, I think a strong argument can be made that is *is* in the interest of the game. Design space is a thing. Only so many masters can exist before they start stepping on each other's toes. And if Nicodem had to go so we could get something new, that is in the interest of the game. Stagnation is death.

That said, I reject the notion that you should sacrifice story or art in the interest of game mechanics. I think that the best games have all of those things working together fluidly. Would you play a card game on blank slips of paper that have nothing but rules printed on them? No? Then the art and aesthetics clearly add something to the game. Would you play Malifaux if the models had no names or backstories? No? Then clearly the story enhances the game. The game is at its best when the mechanics, aesthetics, and story are all flowing together, influencing each other. It is a game first, sure, but story is *part* of that game.

false dilemma. You can advance the story and the game mechanics without risking pissing off or alienating players who main one of the masters that are now gone, or play a master in a faction that is no longer allowed. i don't see how doing that serves the player base at all.

 

Also. Don't ask questions and assume the answer just to further your own argument. I would absolutely still play malifaux without the lore. The lore is frankly the thing I care the least about. I play Malifaux because its fun, and different enough from other war games that I can play it, and 40K, and other war games without it feeling too much like the same thing.

[RedHood]

I'm not happy how many of the masters I've enjoyed playing are now quietly being taken out back and shot in the face.

Plus I'd hate to play a game against someone with a master they might not have access to now at retail. 

 

I don't know if I like the 'story' dictating the game to this degree. 

[Malovane]

1 minute ago, Lalochezia said:

Then clearly the story enhances the game. The game is at its best when the mechanics, aesthetics, and story are all flowing together, influencing each other. It is a game first, sure, but story is *part* of that game.

One of the saddest losses for me in terms of story vs game mechanics was the M1E avatars.  Such a great narrative concept that struggled and failed to find an effective gameplay implementation.

[Justin]

1 minute ago, Kyris said:

false dilemma. You can advance the story and the game mechanics without risking pissing off or alienating players who main one of the masters that are now gone, or play a master in a faction that is no longer allowed. i don't see how doing that serves the player base at all.

Not after a long enough time, no, you can't.

If you advance the story for years without changing how those characters within the advancing stories play at all, eventually you'll end up with characters that are entirely divorced from the story. And if the mechanics are entirely divorced from the story, is it even the game's story any more?

Also you ignored my point about design space and stagnation.

But it's clear we are going to disagree. I love the direction Wyrd is taking. I hope you have a nice day.