Third Edition is Coming!!

[lusciousmccabe]

2 minutes ago, Erik1978 said:

This is something I fail to see improving the game. Right now, 2 Masters in the same crew would be impossible to predict and too powerful to play, due to the many combinations and the power of just 1 master. Feel like taking on Zoraida and Pandora at the same time? Or do you feel like controlling them at the same time? Your mind would explode.

It's probably not going to be much different from how running a Henchman with a Master worked in v1.5. It basically meant giving up a big chunk of your crew to allow some fairly sill combos that weren't necessarily worth it.

[LunarSol]

3 minutes ago, Erik1978 said:

This is something I fail to see improving the game. Right now, 2 Masters in the same crew would be impossible to predict and too powerful to play, due to the many combinations and the power of just 1 master. Feel like taking on Zoraida and Pandora at the same time? Or do you feel like controlling them at the same time? Your mind would explode.

If that's actually playable in 3rd I fear the game has become very simple compared to 2nd. I really hope you prove me wrong, like the other hired Master has limited power in some way, to bring it down to earth a bit.

Masters have a point cost this edition.

[daniello_s]

I'm not a big fan of fielding 2 Masters in same crew. It is asking for problems...

[anumberone]

  I'm super hyped for M3E and everything I've heard so far. Two of my favorite masters, Jack Daw and Marcus, moving to dual faction in my second and third favorite factions. And their new mechanics sound great. 

 And love that Gremlins is changing to Bayou. Class the faction up a bit. And I can finally agree with the old joke "Gremlins are not a faction". 

[Squirrelich]

2 minutes ago, anumberone said:

And I can finally agree with the old joke "Gremlins are not a faction". 

... Oh. My. God.  You just sold me on M3e

[yool1981]

Aren’t the Neverborn the big losers in this edition? 3 masters lost is huge !

[Adran]

14 minutes ago, Erik1978 said:

This is something I fail to see improving the game. Right now, 2 Masters in the same crew would be impossible to predict and too powerful to play, due to the many combinations and the power of just 1 master. Feel like taking on Zoraida and Pandora at the same time? Or do you feel like controlling them at the same time? Your mind would explode.

If that's actually playable in 3rd I fear the game has become very simple compared to 2nd. I really hope you prove me wrong, like the other hired Master has limited power in some way, to bring it down to earth a bit.

First edition was more complex than second edition yet still managed to have rules for 2 master games. Broken combos will exist in 2ed for 2 masters because it was never an aim of the abilities to avoid this. ( and yes I do remember some of the ludicrous things possible in first edition brawls). 

[Gloomy]

9 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

I'm not a big fan of fielding 2 Masters in same crew. It is asking for problems...

Yep totally agree, lets hope this idea gets dismissed in the beta testing. Goes against the whole thematic crew idea anyway

[Erik1978]

15 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

Masters have a point cost this edition.

I know. That's hardly the point. But I didn't play before 2nd edition so I'm glad to hear it MIGHT not be the end of the world...

[anumberone]

3 minutes ago, yool1981 said:

Aren’t the Neverborn the big losers in this edition? 3 masters lost is huge !

 Don't see it as losing 3 masters, see it as gaining a Marcus.

 

2 minutes ago, Athiko said:

Yep totally agree, lets hope this idea gets dismissed in the beta testing. Goes against the whole thematic crew idea anyway

 Although Seamus and Jack Daw teaming up would be epic, maybe you're right.

[Justin]

3 minutes ago, Adran said:

First edition was more complex than second edition yet still managed to have rules for 2 master games. Broken combos will exist in 2ed for 2 masters because it was never an aim of the abilities to avoid this. ( and yes I do remember some of the ludicrous things possible in first edition brawls). 

My brother once froze over a huge piece of forest terrain with Rasputina and then dropped it on me with Marcus, preventing my entire crew from moving for the rest of the game. 🤣

This isn't a comment saying two masters can't be balanced. I'm certain they'll balance them. Just fun memories.

[Gloomy]

Even if hiring a 2nd master is balanced somehow, I still don't like the aesthetic of it, I think it diminishes the impact of having a master.  

[Passenty]

3 hours ago, Mason said:

They will be balanced for competitive play.

If they are balanced why are they not allowed at the tournaments?

[Hound Grey]

I'm mostly waiting for how to get ahold of physical updated card I have a lot of cards to update and am not going to be to happy if its going to be expensive (and hopefully not from war-games vault as their postage to the Uk is expensive).

Also interested in what the cards for alt and special models are going to be like (also have a lot to update) and if olders ones that never got cards like dead justice and miss pack/deed will get cards this time around.

[Tokapondora]

I do like masters having a cost. Rather than a cache, you can essentially better balance masters by upping their pool? And if it allows for multiple masters, that sounds incredibly neat. 

[Memnaelar]

1 minute ago, Passenty said:

If they are balanced why are they not allowed at the tournaments?

My guess is because they're emphasizing story as part of the meta.  Magic rotates cards and sets out of the meta even though those cards and sets are still balanced and various other Minis games have rotated out figures without providing updated balanced stats for those figures in new editions.  I get the frustration, but I do think that short of agreeing to keep every mini evergreen through all editions, Wyrd is taking the best possible approach here (and, frankly, I don't think the evergreen approach is either best or possible in the market).

[Malovane]

2 minutes ago, Zalabar said:

The cultural pressures of tourney play, new shiny models, new rule support, and comparative ease of pick up games grind out the older version every time. These games are not RPGs, where the competitive players are counteracted by the difficulty in picking up a new system, and there's not a terribly functional concept for competitive play, and pick up games aren't really a thing. You noted Necromunda, which is a really good counter example. I am curious how many people play Chainmail. Or more pertinently, Warhammer 40k 6th ed. Or Squats.

To place the onus on someone to compete against a newer edition of the same game because they're frustrated by a surprise sunset on their purchase is not cool. Please stop that one.

By no means do I expect it to be commonplace to continue playing old versions of miniature games within the public view.  I certainly wouldn't go to a brick/mortar store looking to play an old edition.  However, within small groups/circles of friends, I find playing old editions of board games, rpgs, and miniatures to be rather common.  Particularly if you own multiple factions of models, it can be just as easy to break out an old version of Warhammer/40k as it is to break out a board game, more so if the other players are familiar with the rules of course.  Even with the initial release of AoS, WFB continued to have a loyal following, until GW wised up and added structure to the AoS army creation.  WFB is popular enough that its basically just become fan supported as the 9th age, and it apparently has tournaments running at Adepticon and such.

Ultimately, the onus is always on the buyer to make use of the purchase.  The onus is on me to paint/play with my purchase regardless of how popular it is or if its already been made obsolete by a newer version.  I have a few avatars that never hit the table, but that's hardly on Wyrd for changing their implementation in M2E.  I had the opportunity in M1E and didn't take it.   I still have that option to make use of them and I don't take it.  Now that I hear they won't even have rules initially in M3E, its even more on me.  The option to make use of the purchase is ever present, albeit in some cases it can potentially be more challenging.  Models could even be used in different games or settings than their original intent.  Ultimately, I'm just pointing out the options and trying to temper the expected frustrations of an edition change.

[Brandu]

2 hours ago, Figgyfigs said:

He's a GenCon playtest model, so it seems like they're pretty confident in what he looks like for 3E. Also, his Mutation gimmick sounds pretty sick.

I remember 1st edition when he was considered to be about the lowest tier Master ever...

[Gloomy]

5 minutes ago, Memnaelar said:

My guess is because they're emphasizing story as part of the meta.  Magic rotates cards and sets out of the meta even though those cards and sets are still balanced and various other Minis games have rotated out figures without providing updated balanced stats for those figures in new editions.  I get the frustration, but I do think that short of agreeing to keep every mini evergreen through all editions, Wyrd is taking the best possible approach here (and, frankly, I don't think the evergreen approach is either best or possible in the market).

Yeah sure, but my puppets...😢

[EK A&G]

5 hours ago, Mason said:

Excellent question!

Some of the Masters have suffered setbacks that have removed them from Malifaux's stage. Lilith has been imprisoned within Nythera, Nicodem was killed by Lady Justice, Ramos is locked up in a Guild jail cell in Vienna, and Collodi... well, it's final fate hasn't been revealed quite yet.

All of these Masters (and their totems) will receive updated stat cards in M3E in a special "Dead Man's Hand" pack. By default, they will not be tournament legal (due to being absent in the story), but an option will exist to allow these "Dead Man's Hand" Masters to be played in tournaments that wish to allow it.

 

So it was confirmed that some of the masters are in the Dead Man's Hand list and wont be usable for a while, but will be back. Okay, what about dual-faction masters, are they getting back into their "second" factions or not? Like, say, Brewmaster - is he getting back into Ten Thunders and etc etc?
Because it seems that i am not the only person being concerned with losing masters from my faction. And if in case of Dead Man's Hand they are getting back probably in a second book, you gave no info about the dual faction masters who got monofaction all of the sudden, due to a story narrative or not.

Edited July 25, 2018 by EK A&G
Fixing some stuff.

[Passenty]

1 minute ago, Memnaelar said:

My guess is because they're emphasizing story as part of the meta.  Magic rotates cards and sets out of the meta even though those cards and sets are still balanced and various other Minis games have rotated out figures without providing updated balanced stats for those figures in new editions.  I get the frustration, but I do think that short of agreeing to keep every mini evergreen through all editions, Wyrd is taking the best possible approach here (and, frankly, I don't think the evergreen approach is either best or possible in the market).

I think its a little bit insulting to customers like myself - I own almost whole nvb fraction+most of merc, what I'am to do with all the stuff I bought, 3 masters cut out of fraction, merc gone. And really if the deleted masters are to be competetive why put dead man's hand restriction on tournament play - the restriction should be only on world wide campaign which change fluff not normal tournament circuit.

[Justin]

Where is the story about Lilith? I need to go read that.

I picked up Broken Promises the other day but I'm not all the way through it. Or is it in TTB somewhere?

[Malovane]

2 minutes ago, EK A&G said:

So it was confirmed that some of the masters are in the Dead Man's Hand list and wont be usable for a while, but will be back. Okay, what about dual-faction masters, are they getting back into their "second" factions or not? Like, say, Brewmaster - is he getting back into Ten Thunders and etc etc?

I get the impression faction affiliations will become more fluid and change over time.  Particularly now that its the Bayou faction and not Gremlins, make me think more non-gremlins will show up.  Like maybe Marcus ditches the Arcanists entirely and goes Neverborn/Bayou.  Feels like the narrative has opened up a bit in this regard.

[manc84]

58 minutes ago, Mason said:

There are!

Item one on the checklist, that was.

Thank you so much for that!

By the way. Maybe we can get a sneakpeak on how the backside of the statcard will look like?

[EK A&G]

1 minute ago, Malovane said:

I get the impression faction affiliations will become more fluid and change over time.  Particularly now that its the Bayou faction and not Gremlins, make me think more non-gremlins will show up.  Like maybe Marcus ditches the Arcanists entirely and goes Neverborn/Bayou.  Feels like the narrative has opened up a bit in this regard.

Yeah, i mentioned that too, would be sorta cool. I dont mind triple-faction or 4-faction masters, doesnt really matter, but the "option removal" concerns me.