Any update on TOS goodies?

[envyizm]

14 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

Most of the things you're "sure" of, I'm not really "sure" about.

And that's perfectly fine. You don't need my permission to ride with your current hypothesis.

This is what I know: I know several backers who will be selling their kits when they arrive to recoup their money as they got into other games being tired of the run around and don't want to invest the time getting into TOS. Just as you're assuming a causailty for a games success rooted in a companies intrinsic greed, I'm rooting one in the negative consumer experiences I know to be true. Descartes rationalism vs empiricism, if you will. I'm not one for indoctrination, so my assumptions will obviously differ from your own. You guys can all continue to puff your chest and disagree, but frankly, I'm bored.

 

 

[AverageBoss]

I just want Wyrd to say something concerning the MSRP change.

For those not in the know, MSRP values on individual items are now the same as, and in a couple instances lower than, the KS prices that were shown to be a discount off MSRP.

Wyrds silence in general, and on that in particular has several of my players riled up.

[Thangoruin]

9 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

I just want Wyrd to say something concerning the MSRP change.

For those not in the know, MSRP values on individual items are now the same as, and in a couple instances lower than, the KS prices that were shown to be a discount off MSRP.

Wyrds silence in general, and on that in particular has several of my players riled up.

Only the pledges were advertised to offer a savings, which they still do. The add-ons were offered at an *estimated* MSRP.

[AverageBoss]

1 minute ago, Thangoruin said:

Only the pledges were advertised to offer a savings, which they still do. The add-ons were offered at an *estimated* MSRP.

No the add-ons each had two prices listed. An MSRP value, and a giant bold KS value that was roughly 15% lower than the noted MSRP value. If they had now been advertised that way, implying a savings, everyone here would have passed on add-ons to support our lgs, save money, and not have our cash tied up for two years.

That is why my players are upset, and they are interpreting Wyrds silence on the issue as an attempt to sneak it by. That is why I want them to say something, anything on the matter. This is a serious danger to the entire local scene here.

[Thangoruin]

4 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

No the add-ons each had two prices listed. An MSRP value, and a giant bold KS value that was roughly 15% lower than the noted MSRP value. If they had now been advertised that way, implying a savings, everyone here would have passed on add-ons to support our lgs, save money, and not have our cash tied up for two years.

You are correct, I had missed that, but there is still a disclaimer that MSRP were just estimates and subject to change.

I guess I've been lucky that my community is pretty understanding about the risks involved with Kickstarters; consequently, the anger surrounding the MSRP change seems weird to me. But regardless, Wyrd's communication does need to be stepped up; hopefully we actually get an update today (as we should) that addresses the changes adequately for your community.

[Saduhem]

1 hour ago, AverageBoss said:

I just want Wyrd to say something concerning the MSRP change.

For those not in the know, MSRP values on individual items are now the same as, and in a couple instances lower than, the KS prices that were shown to be a discount off MSRP.

Wyrds silence in general, and on that in particular has several of my players riled up.

While I personally accept that as a risk and I'm fine with it, I totally understand that a lot of people feel burned by this. 

[envyizm]

Update just in: the international orders allegidly sent out this week are shipping out next week to be distributed and the domestic orders are being wrapped up early next week. Another tenative timeframe kind of an update, but I'm still as uncertain as I was before this week's update. It's like last week's update didn't count or something. Still not boarding the hype train yet.

[RedHood]

Mainly I'm put off by the prices at retail. It'll be a hard sell to friends and local stores to get them to invest in this game because of the asking price. Can I personally recommend you spend $90 on one of the Titans? Not really. There in lies the problem it's one of those games people will go 'yeah looks alright but its too expensive'. There's a number of design choices I'm not thrilled about either, firstly pre-assembled minatures and there's certainly question marks about PVC miniatures at this price point. 

What I would say is I'm not a warmahordes fan for many similar reasons (high prices so so quality miniatures) so when I heard Wyrd were doing a wargame on this scale I wasn't really expecting them to take a similar route to what Privateer Press have with pricing and manufacturing choices. 

We hopefully will all be sat here in a couple of years time and this game will have proven to be a success at retail it's just not what I was expecting really. Perhaps it is my expectations that are wrong! 

 

Quote from me back in Jan 2017. 

 

I really feel for the Kickstarter backers on this. It was plain to see during the Kickstarter that the MSRP prices quoted weren't realistic at all therefore the proposed 'saving' wasn't in actual fact much of a saving if a saving at all. 

This combined with the delays and the heavily discounted prices third party retailers are offering means that Wyrd really deserve all the flak they are getting on this. 

 

 

 

 

[FedeII]

I don't really care so much for the difference in products' prices, though i can understand, to a certain extent, people' sentiment.

I mean, i didn't order many add-ons (only one unit), so little money would be "lost" anyway, and said money would support a game i hope will grow.

I'm a little bit bothered, though, by the fact that neither me, nor my other backer (backerkit) friend, have received the pdf with rules (Italy). I hope this will change when they ship the preorders!

[-Loki-]

17 hours ago, RedHood said:

Mainly I'm put off by the prices at retail. It'll be a hard sell to friends and local stores to get them to invest in this game because of the asking price. Can I personally recommend you spend $90 on one of the Titans? Not really. There in lies the problem it's one of those games people will go 'yeah looks alright but its too expensive'. There's a number of design choices I'm not thrilled about either, firstly pre-assembled minatures and there's certainly question marks about PVC miniatures at this price point.

The cost isn't that high when you consider an Allegiance box is a full army.

Also, according to the Chronicles issue that was all about the game, they're taking a different approach to TOS in that what you see released for an army is going to be largely it (they're designing TOS to be 'wide', or lots of armies with fewer, almost static unit selections in contrast to Malifaux's 'tall' approach of lots of fewer factions that can take many, many options). You won't have a long tail of releases over years that continually expand and bloat an army and make older choices redundant.

This makes it easier to get the list of what an army can take (and remember, all rules and cards will be free) and proxy something until you're happy and buy just what you want. The only part that makes it potentially more expensive is if you want the commander in the Allegiance box but not the squads, since the squads are available outside of the box but the commander isn't (at least, going by what we saw available during the kickstarter as add ons).

[RedHood]

Is it a full army though? it isn't. You're going to need to purchase additional units to have the flexibility to play a competent list. It's like saying one of the starting collecting boxes GW put out is a full army. 
 

It still doesn't address the slashing of MSRP which was clearly bloated for the Kickstarter and whilst I brought this up during the Kickstarter as a legitimate concern they seemed more than happy to take as much cash off backers as they could and then reduce the price come retail. 

 

I suppose if you're happy to at least take comfort you helped make the game happen then there's that at the very least. I think the backers deserved better than a sizeable delay and slashed value of the items they paid for. 

[retnab]

3 hours ago, RedHood said:

Is it a full army though? it isn't. You're going to need to purchase additional units to have the flexibility to play a competent list. It's like saying one of the starting collecting boxes GW put out is a full army. 

Incorrect, the allegiance boxes are built to be viable 1C lists.  They might not have as many options in them as a 1C list from someone with multiples of everything, but for their cost you can literally open the box and immediately start playing at your LGS with just that.

[Mommi]

On 10/13/2018 at 10:05 PM, FedeII said:

I don't really care so much for the difference in products' prices, though i can understand, to a certain extent, people' sentiment.

I mean, i didn't order many add-ons (only one unit), so little money would be "lost" anyway, and said money would support a game i hope will grow.

I'm a little bit bothered, though, by the fact that neither me, nor my other backer (backerkit) friend, have received the pdf with rules (Italy). I hope this will change when they ship the preorders!

Se ti serve dimmelo

[-Loki-]

17 hours ago, RedHood said:

I suppose if you're happy to at least take comfort you helped make the game happen then there's that at the very least. I think the backers deserved better than a sizeable delay and slashed value of the items they paid for. 

Backing a Kickstarter is to do just this. It’s been mutated into a cheap retail storefront by places like CMON, but backing a project on Kickstarter is expressly to get a project funded.

You take a gamble on anything you get through it being worth your money or not.

Ive said this before, but I bought one of everything for Hordes and a friend did the same with Abyssinia. I even threw in a second Eel and a few more Egg Clutches.

I knew I’d be able to get it cheaper from my FLGS but a. I’m betting it won’t all be available up front (there’s 13 releases per army, that’s a years worth of releases with a 2 release opening month), and b. I wanted to help fund as much as I could.

[AverageBoss]

1 hour ago, -Loki- said:

Backing a Kickstarter is to do just this. It’s been mutated into a cheap retail storefront by places like CMON, but backing a project on Kickstarter is expressly to get a project funded.

You take a gamble on anything you get through it being worth your money or not.

Ive said this before, but I bought one of everything for Hordes and a friend did the same with Abyssinia. I even threw in a second Eel and a few more Egg Clutches.

I knew I’d be able to get it cheaper from my FLGS but a. I’m betting it won’t all be available up front (there’s 13 releases per army, that’s a years worth of releases with a 2 release opening month), and b. I wanted to help fund as much as I could.

Everyone knew it would be cheaper after launch, as retail discounts are very common. What was not known was that the MSRP itself would be lowered to match the KS price (which was very clearly shown off as being less than MSRP), and for Wyrd to remain silent on the issue. Some people actually paid MORE for some items on the KS than what the new MSRP came out to. My players around here are pretty upset, and its not looking good locally.

I myself am simply going to abstain from any future Wyrd KS, assuming the prices listed are simply over inflated and will be the same or cheaper later. That is if people keep playing Wyrd minis around here. Seriously, Wyrd needs to at least acknowledge it as a thing that has happened and address the backers. Of course with "several updates over the next few days" followed by a week of silence and a more of the same update at the end of that, my expectations are low.

[Merchant]

14 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Everyone knew it would be cheaper after launch, as retail discounts are very common. 

Wut? an LGS has mark up. Sometimes like my LGS over MSRP, and only preordering gets you down to msrp. This doesnt bother me as much as I tend to buy med/smaller sets from them but I honestly thought everything on the KS was supposed to be a good deal with Wyrd like most KS projects getting a minimum take home so they could fund a huge product line they would capitalize on after launch. I get the the pledges are a great deal, however I thought the add-on where supposed to be saving you a decent percentage, I didn't buy whole line but I could have gotten a couple extra squads for the difference.

 

As for the loosing players thing, I know 2 maybe 3 of my friends are looking to get bought out of their pledges, though not due to the business practices, just the delays. interest wains. While I think I would be nice if they address the MSRP Issue, or did something as a gesture of good faith for the backers, I'm honestly more interested in getting product in my hands so I can start painting /demo-ing, and for wyrd to push some heavy promotions. 

I for one really want to see this game flourish, It seems to do for me what I've wanted or been unsatisfied with malifaux. It's a lighter and quicker system, while being just as robust in play space. It allows for small, med, or silly large play with out the game warping drastically like malifaux. Finally it can easily scratch small tactics or army strategy itch, and it all brings back the "my dudes" aspect I have been missing from malifaux's character centric style.

[AverageBoss]

2 hours ago, Merchant said:

Wut? an LGS has mark up. Sometimes like my LGS over MSRP, and only preordering gets you down to msrp.

That is actually very abnormal, and I have never heard of a shop doing that. The most I have ever seen a shop sell minis for is flat MSRP. Many sell with some sort or discount of customer loyalty program. Cool Stuff for example starts at a flat 10% MSRP on all items, then they up that % permanently based on customer purchase records. Miniature Market sells for 15% of MSRP base, and can get cheaper from there with sales.

But yes, Wyrd did make everything on the KS appear as though it were a deal. It just turnes out nothing was a deal outside the core pledges.

[Merchant]

people really getting shipping notices or is this an elaborate ruse? 

[envyizm]

5 hours ago, Merchant said:

people really getting shipping notices or is this an elaborate ruse? 

I'm stateside and have gotten nothing so far. No word from wyrd either as their several post over the next couple days thing never became a reality. Not a fan of being left in the dark so close to this games allegid launch. I feel inclined to say that I think it'll reach retail faster than it'll reach the backers.

[-Loki-]

Wyrd stated stateside (domestic) shipping would happen after all international shipping was done in one of the last updates. I’m guessing they’re waiting until their international fulfilment centres start sending out the international orders before they start actually sending the domestic orders to try to get it all arriving around the same time.

[gribble]

6 hours ago, -Loki- said:

Wyrd stated stateside (domestic) shipping would happen after all international shipping was done in one of the last updates. I’m guessing they’re waiting until their international fulfilment centres start sending out the international orders before they start actually sending the domestic orders to try to get it all arriving around the same time.

That's not what the last update said at all:

Quote

Things are moving along at a good clip, we have the balance of the International Orders being picked up early next week and going on to their proper distribution point. We have moved on to the domestics and will be working this Saturday and into early next week to get those all wrapped up. 

Depending on Wyrd's definition of "early" next week, I'd expect at least *some* domestic backers to have received shipping notifications, if not *most* to *all* of them.

Unless there has been another delay...

[Merchant]

7 hours ago, -Loki- said:

I’m guessing they’re waiting until their international fulfilment centres start sending out the international orders before they start actually sending the domestic orders to try to get it all arriving around the same time.

God I hope not. Just send em all.

[cbtb11235813]

At least one person in the US has received their goodies (in the facebook group). Don't despair!

[solkan]

There are photos of opened boxes showing packing material and TOS boxes in the Contiones de Rege Flammae group.

So packages have started arriving, even if I haven’t gotten mine yet.  

 

[envyizm]

4 hours ago, cbtb11235813 said:

At least one person in the US has received their goodies (in the facebook group). Don't despair!

Which facebook group? I find it hard to believe that US orders are starting to get fulfilled at this point. If this is the true, this is excellent news.