Nicodem Players - Dealing with the nerf

[Deathinabox]

Yeah I'd definitely agree that Hayreddin can be risky, but with some good positioning, you can summon a model within 6 of Nico and 3 of Hayreddin. Blast off of it with healing and then chain activate the summon to charge it out of the Hayreddin bubble. It'll certainly take some practice to pull it off regularly but it could certainly work 

[newsun]

Maybe using Toshiro to summon and Nico to heal and make fast will be better?

[Paddywhack]

On 7/6/2018 at 11:58 AM, Clement said:

With respect, trying to get to a straight flip off decay when going off enemy defense is likely almost exactly as bad.  What this boils down to is "flipping at least a 4 or 5 on the defense will stop blasts from happening".  You could focus to ensure the straight flip, but at that point it gets rather technical as to if Focus + Decay enemy vs Decay ally + Decay enemy makes more sense.

Spending a master AP to land 2 damage and do nothing else to an enemy isn't very productive.  Other summoners and support focused masters usually trigger some other effect (Adversary, armor ignoring, slow) and often are ca 7 to boot.  Nico's turns, in my experience, tend to skip directly interacting with the enemy in favor of supporting his own squad.

I'm always open to new ideas though.  If there's someone out there who gets great millage out of "Nico the blaster" I'd love to see the crews they're doing it with.

I'm not enough of a statistics guy to know the details, but it would certainly help I suppose.  The real problem here is that the ability to flip let's say "3 or worse" on a flip is basically an identical question to flipping "11 or better" on a  flip.

Do you really think a 2dmg Blast is really going to make that big a difference? He's always had this available and it's never been a go to for players. Decay is really used for healing your own guys and if you happen to get splash damage on the enemy great, but it's not why you cast Decay. If he had a way to up the damage a bit then maybe I'd see a use case and that could actually give Nicodem a new way to be played. Maybe in a future upgrade.... 

 

[Clement]

15 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

Do you really think a 2dmg Blast is really going to make that big a difference? He's always had this available and it's never been a go to for players. Decay is really used for healing your own guys and if you happen to get splash damage on the enemy great, but it's not why you cast Decay. If he had a way to up the damage a bit then maybe I'd see a use case and that could actually give Nicodem a new way to be played. Maybe in a future upgrade.... 

 

You would use the blast to arc healing onto a second model.  So Nicodem's turn could be Summon+Summon+Heal both from the brink.  I'd agree getting 2 damage onto an enemy model is gravy.

[mojopin]

I think I will try healing poison Nico (necrotic king, shadow embrace + something else, maybe corpse bloat or spare parts) with little gassers, rafkin for the extra damage aura, Sebastian as efficient summoner. And add ons like belles, autopsies, and crooked men.

[TheEmptyRoad]

I’m currently experimenting around with Circling Buzzards and it’s ability to spam Vultures and place them at key points all around the board, turning into-essentially-flying arc nodes that Nic can cast from, giving him incredible range and board influence if not control, also equipped with the all-important Death’s Whip Aura.

[Cranky Old Man]

Decay worked well for me today. Managed to raise a hanged then decayed him and used another corpse marker to heal him full. Patchwork is good enough for punk zombies, taking above hard to kill is fine. I find now I’m not worried about my summons surviving, love thy master I companion get my shots in and die drawing a card. The nerf is annoying but I never played Nicodem like others. I use him with necrotic king as a buffer, Izamu in his aura with fast is very deadly. Just a matter of working through the new feel. He is still my primary and favourite master. Regardless I will use him anyway and try to be competitive.

[Daysleeper]

Stupid Question, how do you guys test the "new" Nico? Where do you get the new cards? My App still shows his old version.

[Ludvig]

16 minutes ago, Daysleeper said:

Stupid Question, how do you guys test the "new" Nico? Where do you get the new cards? My App still shows his old version.

Google "malifaux errata" which will take you to the faq and errata page where the new official cards can be downloaded for printing or just print screen and keep a pic on your phone.

The app is either too slow or too fast with new releases.

[Thatguy]

What do you guys think about trying to stay in the summoning game as more of rear suportb character. Summon more tagged models to try and mitigate their 1 wound problem. 

Maybe have Nico and Mort hang back and summon exclusively scheme runners? Or a nurse for full healing. 

[Anung Un Rama]

Here is what I do now. A usual list for me is Nico with necrotic king, undertaker and reaper grin. Then asura roten bête noire and a beater like Izamu. 3 rotten belles. I usually activate asura first to get a zombie. Then I’ll activate nico and pop the undead crowning which gives the belles positive flips on their lures. I raise a punk zombie or kentauroi and then decay him to heal or make fast. Then the belles pick an enemy model and lure him all the way over so Izamu, bête and punk can kill it. One of them usually lures nico up or kentauroi moves him so everyone is in the bubble. Works well. I normally take crews apart piece by piece. If I need to be more schemes I go with necropunks instead of bête and use nico positive ca flips to get their first leap off easier.

[Freman]

They seem to have solved the Nicodem problem in 3rd edition.

Remove him from the game.

No Nicodem

No Ramos

No Lilith

No Collodi

So... no interest.

[Anung Un Rama]

Yeah I find it disappointing. Nico and Ramos are my favourite masters. 

[-Loki-]

He will get a card - all current models will, but it’s tournament legality will be optional depending on the TOs decision.

[Paddywhack]

22 minutes ago, Freman said:

They seem to have solved the Nicodem problem in 3rd edition.

Remove him from the game.

No Nicodem

No Ramos

No Lilith

No Collodi

So... no interest.

I can understand the frustration, but really? Four models gone (for now) and so the whole game is ruined? I still have faith in seeing what M3 will bring, plus it could be that all those master come back in a future book. I started with Nicodem and am sad to see him go, but exited by the new masters and a fresh coat of paint on all the other models and rules. If the game didn't change it would stagnate over time. 

And it may very well be a year or so before they release the new edition officially - we don't have a timeline yet. 

[Fetid Strumpet]

Faulting those who dislike intensely this change isn’t helpful. Malifaux was marketed as a character driven game. Players get in for a variety of reasons but coming in for a character is just as valid a reason as any. Removing a character as a playable character is shooting those players that liked that master in the foot. I don’t fault those that hate this decision or would leave the game over that decision. I’d be leaving if Seamus or Molly were removed. I like other masters and I like the game but I play the game for them. 

[Anung Un Rama]

I’m still excited to play but it takes the gloss off is all.

[Haagrum]

7 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Faulting those who dislike intensely this change isn’t helpful. Malifaux was marketed as a character driven game. Players get in for a variety of reasons but coming in for a character is just as valid a reason as any. Removing a character as a playable character is shooting those players that liked that master in the foot. I don’t fault those that hate this decision or would leave the game over that decision. I’d be leaving if Seamus or Molly were removed. I like other masters and I like the game but I play the game for them. 

It's not an issue except for tournaments. And possibly not even there. The story has moved along, and I'm curious to see what happens to Collodi.

It's easy to be upset, but what actual change will there be? What's actually going to stop you using them outside of tournaments? I'm miffed that the Lilith I've *just* finished painting may not be usable in tournaments, but there's still casual games - which are perfectly fine fun.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Easy to say. Outside of basement groups I’ve never seen that actually happen however. Every single group in every single game I’ve played always use whatever rules are used in tournaments even if they never play tournaments. So yes it matters. 

[-Loki-]

I see people run the latest set of tournament scenarios but I never see people treat casual games as tournaments. That’s two very different things.

TOs can say no, you can’t use Nicodem. Even casual games using Gaining Grounds I can’t imagine anyone will care if you run a Dead Mans Hand master.

[Fetid Strumpet]

That hasn’t been my experience in any miniature or card game I’ve played, and I’ve played a lot. Every group I’ve ever played with always uses whatever the tournament rules are. I don’t doubt there are basement groups that never interact with the wider community that will do as you say, but I doubt very highly any group with any connection to the wider community will do other than follow the tournament rules. To pretend otherwise is painting an inaccurate picture I feel. 

[-Loki-]

Speaking of earlier faulting those who have lost masters not being helpful, neither is dismissing groups you don’t care to accept the opinions of as ‘basement groups’.

We’re all in this together.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Did you take that as a perforation term? It wasn’t intended as such, what term would be better?

[-Loki-]

Gamers? I don’t see a point in segregation. We play the same game.

Personally, my group plays a mix of ways. We sometimes meet at someone’s house to play there. We often play at our local store, with our own group and pick up games with people from the surrounding area. We also play tournaments and leagues with people from the surrounding area.

Never once have I seen a casual game played with gaining grounds schemes and strategies treated with the seriousness of a tournament.

[Ludvig]

3 hours ago, aquenaton said:

I will have to use Nicodem as much as possible until the next eddition change... and once it is made, I hope it is not umbalanced, because when I organize tournaments, I want my masters to be used 😁

Has there been official word on if it is balance that made them get kicked out or just story? Because story should really not matter unless it's a current story event. I predict a lot of TOs wil want to keep the old masters available.