New to the game! Seeking advice

[Macdaddy353]

Hello everyone! I’m new to Malifaux and after browsing around the factions I fell in love with gremlins! Particularly Zipp! 

I read a bit of the Zipp and Ophelia Tactica but I’m struggling to start my collection, 

I know there’s are lots of cross faction options but for the sake of having mercy on my wallet I wanted to stick with pure gremlins (other than Earl of course!) and kind of keep my collection focused around Ophelia and Zipp. 

I have the following 50SS lists planned out to start with based off the starter kits plus a couple added minis.

Zipp: Rambling diatribe, No quarter.  

Earl Burns

First Mate: WtCCS, Treasure Map

Iron Skeeter: Porrly Handled Explosives

Iron Skeeter

Merris Lacroix: Stilts

Pere Ravage: Team Work

Whiskey Golem: Barrel Up

I am not for sure about the golem but with earl I can get it’s defensive and offensive triggers off. So the construct bubble becomes more relevant. I have also considered Sparks but I’m not 100%.sold that I need him.

thanks for any tips!

[Wildcard626]

To make the best use of the iron skeeters you really need Francois or Burt or even a taxidermist so you can give them fast then reckless for 4ap of goodness 

[DanteJH]

Hey mate! Welcome to the game,

that list is pretty solid as an extremely fast, in-your-face build but I’d drop Merris and team work on pere for Francois LaCroix to save some money and because Francois is a monster. 

Merris is usually used as a scheme runner but this crew wants to rapidly engage with strong melee threats.

How’d you find the Ophelia tactica?

[Macdaddy353]

I was really considering Francois because he seems amazing. 

I really like the Ophelia tactica! It went really in depth and I liked how you broke down the additional models and interactions. Other tactica just call her a gunline master, but you pointed out her movement tricks which adds depth to her!

I was mostly running Merris as a scheme runner to practice scheme running, but if you think the list would fair better as an all in FITE MEH approach I’ll totally go with Francois because he is awesome.

am I right in thinking Pere Ravage and poorly handled explosives stacks For potentially 13 Damage to anyone within 2? That seems absurd

 

 

[DanteJH]

Thanks, I’m always looking to improve the tactica.

The pere+expolives was actually a very potent combo at the latest UK masters so enjoy that one!

the iron skeeters can be used as replacement scheme runners fine and earl tends to drop a few when I play im

[Platov]

I will also advice using Burt. He's just good, and can use that Skeeters for healing+fast and mobility. Fingers also looks good in marker-heavy scheme pool. Also, Iron Skeeters are good, but you rarely need more then 1.

And also, on Pere blowing-combo: it's good, but depends on who you are facing. If enemy master can summon or have activation control - even with 8 activations you will have hard time blowing Pere up. It's good combo, but it's also quite easy to counter  it, cause pere have low df and wp.

[Macdaddy353]

4 hours ago, Platov said:

I will also advice using Burt. He's just good, and can use that Skeeters for healing+fast and mobility. Fingers also looks good in marker-heavy scheme pool. Also, Iron Skeeters are good, but you rarely need more then 1.

And also, on Pere blowing-combo: it's good, but depends on who you are facing. If enemy master can summon or have activation control - even with 8 activations you will have hard time blowing Pere up. It's good combo, but it's also quite easy to counter  it, cause pere have low df and wp.

I still don't understand the summoning activation control and its impact yet (but I only have 1 game so maybe Ill see it eventually) 

Wouldn't Pere be really good into summoning because he blows up and causes all the AOE damage? I am trying to think of a way to prep for those lists and I was thinking lots of AOE type effects would be the way to down all the bodies and keep crowd control. 

I think I am gonna try a second skeeter, especially if I bring someone to replace the golem because the tow ability is pretty darn good. Is there a way to build them as a back up scheme runner?

@DanteJH If I were to get the ophelia and Zipp starter boxes, would that be a solid beginner force? Or are there some other models I need to be aware of? 

 

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Macdaddy353 said:

 

@DanteJH If I were to get the ophelia and Zipp starter boxes, would that be a solid beginner force? Or are there some other models I need to be aware of? 

 

I would say they are a good couple of boxes to start with. The two masters play differently, and the box composition is quite different, in Ophelia has hard hitters, where as zipp comes with movement and support. 

You ought to be able to build several different styles of lists from those 2. I would suggest starting there, and playing with what you have for a while and see where you struggle before you make the next purchases. ( oh and after the 2 boxes I would strongly suggest the next purchase would be general upgrades 1 and 2). 

First mate is a good scheme runner if you need it, and is also very good at dealing with enemy scheme runners and their schemes. 

[Macdaddy353]

Thanks for all the advice! @aquenaton is one enough? A buddy of mine has some Gremlins and part of his collection is a slop hauler that I was gonna grab off him. I Bought the APP and read their card and was surprised they work with everyone. The movement and healing seems really important to a list like Ophelias where there is lots of self harm and models that appreciate the extra movement. 

I see how summoners could be an issue now. Whats a good way to counter that? Is Zipp a good scalpel to kill the summoning models? Is there a way to skip activation to stall until my opponent goes? 

@Adran What upgrades are best for him? I considered both Where the captain can't see and treasure Map. But I was not sure if that makes him too expensive. Do you typically run him around by himself or keep Him with the group?

 

 

 

[Platov]

Burt is one of the best additions to zipp box. He's strong beater, he's not as expandable as Franc, and he is cheap, because he's in solo box. 

But Zipp+Ophelia boxes are a good combo anyways. 

As for Golem - he is not so good, as he looks. I mean, he's good, but there are better options(Burt).) 

 

Zipp is mostly about disrupt. He's extremely annoying as opponent. He's almost impossible to pin down, and with his mobility he is everywhere. In my opinion, he's a little bit easier to play, because he is kinda die hard, and he can stay alive longer then Ophelia. 

And also, Zipp is good against summoners. He can attack early, and "kidnap" enemy master with "Up we go", placing him near your beaters, like Burt, Golem or Franc(then you activate Franc via companion, and slice enemy master to pieces, giving opponent no way to react). This works equally good against any support model. 

Slop haulers are, well, OK. But with wave 5 upgrades, Ophelia don't need them much now. And Zipp don't need them at all, they are just too slow, and can't keep up with the crew. 1 is totally OK. 

As for Pere - best way to use him - blow him up among enemy models, late in turn. He's vulnerable, and if you will taxi him with Skeeter - he will become target for very next enemy activation. Even if you manage to place him near opponent, he then will be paralyzed, or pushed away. Pere combo is good. Really good. But a bit unreliable. 

[daniello_s]

Zipp needs Dirty Cheater... He loves this upgrade...

[Dogmantra]

1 hour ago, Macdaddy353 said:

Is there a way to skip activation to stall until my opponent goes?

it's called Bayou Gremlins 😛

 

well, sorta. they're only 3 stones, so bringing three or four really increases your activation count for very little investment, plus they're really good for their cost

[Adran]

I build a list when I know what strats and schemes there are, and what the table looks like, so I don't have a good answer for you. Both are potentially good upgrades in the right game, so I might use both if I am sure my opponent will be dropping scheme markers. Or neither if I don't think they will do marker schemes. 

[Adran]

3 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

it's called Bayou Gremlins 😛

 

well, sorta. they're only 3 stones, so bringing three or four really increases your activation count for very little investment, plus they're really good for their cost

Young lacruax at 2 do it for Ophelia, or just killing. The hope is if they are using lots of cheap models, or summoning, you should be able to kill them quicker. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. 

[DanteJH]

I would highly suggest getting the Ophelia box and Zipp box to start @Macdaddy353. They’re both fantastic masters who play differently with solid crew boxes that compliment each other.

And do you think Zipp is really a harder kill than Ophelia @Platov? If he’s pinned down he’s dead.

anyway, here’s the list I’d make out of the 2 boxes but I’d want to get Burt as another melee threat for the skeeters to taxi

50 SS Gremlins Crew

Zipp + 4 Pool

 - No Quarter (1)

 - Dirty Cheater (1)

Earl Burns (3)

The First Mate (9)

 - Treasure Map (0)

 - Where The Captain Can't See (1)

Francois LaCroix (8)

 - Stilts (1)

Iron Skeeter (6)

 - Poorly Handled Explosives (0)

Iron Skeeter (6)

 - Hovering Airship (1)

Pere Ravage (6)

Raphael LaCroix (6)

 - Dirty Cheater (1)

 

This crew has high potential to control enemy movement and remove problem models. Use Zipp, the first mate and skeeters to pull the enemy out of position then use frank, pere and Raphael to kill people who need to leave. 

[Platov]

1 hour ago, DanteJH said:

And do you think Zipp is really a harder kill than Ophelia @Platov? If he’s pinned down he’s dead.

Yep, I do think so. Zipp have flight, best df/wp trigger in the faction, and insane mobility. You can't charge zipp and make 2 attacks. You can't flurry him. And you can't even paralyze him, because of upgrade. I do belive, that Zipp is most resilient Gremlin master.

I played a lot of games with him. Like, A LOT. About 70-100, and as far as I can remember, he died only twice. One time - from Pandoras aura, other time - random BJ appeared, on Langston charge. 

Anyways, this kind of statistics makes me belive, that he's much harder to kill then Ophelia(Mah, Wong, Ulix, Brewster and Zoraida). 

[Macdaddy353]

awesome thanks everyone!

@DanteJH So would Burt and Gracie be a better purchase over the Whiskey Golem? With the self healing, durability at df7, and its high speed, I was hoping it would be a half decent durable beater. If blunt. Is he just too Generalist? I like Burt a lot, I just felt like the synergy of the construct with Earl makes him feel much more relevant. I guess there is always Sparks, construct Gracie FTW

Is dirty cheater really that worth it? I can see it keeping him alive a bit longer, But There are other seriously cool upgrades he can take. I know he will be in the thick of things tossing people around with Up we go. 

 

 

 

[Clement]

They're coming from opposite ends.  The whiskey golem has widely been kind of garbage since it's release.  Since then it's gained a nice upgrade and gone down a stone, so it's pretty good.

On the other end, Burt was *amazing* and he's had a price increase in the last errata.  He's not *as* good as he used to be, but he's still pretty good.

If/when you run Whiskey Golem, the thing you'll notice first is his tiny t-rex arms...  On the other end, when you run Burt the first few times, your first realization is that his lucky knife is super murdery.

[DanteJH]

I love love love the whiskey golem and take him in 90% of my crews and I’ve never regret it. A lot of people will talk him down but I love him so much because he can do ANYTHING and fill any hole. The list I gave you was just a budget one.

Most people also take Burt with dirty cheater, which is always worth it btw, and at that point they cost the same and id rather have the golem. Don’t forget his 0 stone upgrade

[Platov]

7 hours ago, Macdaddy353 said:

Is dirty cheater really that worth it? I can see it keeping him alive a bit longer, But There are other seriously cool upgrades he can take. I know he will be in the thick of things tossing people around with Up we go. 

Well, in general, it's not worthy to attack Zipp. To kill him - you have to spend a lot of activations and cards. 

That's why I rarely take dirty Cheater on him. I prefer limited upgrade + Diatribe or supply drop. 

Diatribe gives you ability to cycle cards, and supply drop can be useful sometimes, if you get lucky. 

[TeddyBear]

@Macdaddy353 I'm playing with Som'er and Zipp from January and that's my 2 cents: just giva a chance to Survivors! They are incredible for 4 ss! especially with Zipp (when you don't use Dread Pirate Zipp) they have htk, armor and reckless, a good output of damage in short and long range!

[DanteJH]

@Platov could you tell me more about how u keep Zipp and earl alive? As soon as the opponent figures out that earl’s the one giving him masks he’s dead in an instant. What are your strategies for keeping by earl with you?

I’ve actually been having a lot of trouble with Zipp in tournaments and would like to get better at him but I’m currently having better luck with brewie. Could I also get a sample list?

[Platov]

On 7/1/2018 at 12:20 AM, DanteJH said:

@Platov could you tell me more about how u keep Zipp and earl alive? As soon as the opponent figures out that earl’s the one giving him masks he’s dead in an instant. What are your strategies for keeping by earl with you?

I’ve actually been having a lot of trouble with Zipp in tournaments and would like to get better at him but I’m currently having better luck with brewie. Could I also get a sample list?

Hm. Well, i don't have any secret tricks, except of playing with caution. But I'll try to explain.
Zipp is highly mobile, and i try to use that as much, as i can. I don't rely on Earl much. I place Earl, like, 12-15" ahead, near the centerline, and leave him there. On first and second turn i try to save as much masks in hand, as i can. With 2-3 masks in hand, and SS use, Zipp is almost impossible to pin down. And then i stick up with hit-and-run tacktics. Zipp makes diatribe or grab a rope, walks 1 time, and charges enemy model i want dead. He uses "up we go", throws enemy closer to your crew, and follows enemy model with trigger. Then, he does the same thing again, and flees with trigger. First Mate or Franc makes the kill, if "kidnapped" model is still alive after "Up we go".

In general, i don't play reckless. And I always fall back, after attack. But at the same time, i play quite aggresivly. It depends on enemy master, tho. I utilize same "hit and run" tactics for both masters i love, Mah and Zipp.

There is one thing about Zipp, that you can use to surprise your opponent: His smokescreen is impassible, and you can use it to wall-lock opponent models.

Or you can just throw enemy model in smokescreen-prison like that:

 

It's not game-winning wombo-combo, but it sure can help some times. As for the lists, well, i don't use one list, it always depends on schemes and strategy, but there are always alot things in common, so ill try to give a list with some explanations.

This is my most agressive list:

50 SS Gremlins Crew
Zipp + 6 Pool
- No Quarter (1)
- Rambling Diatribe (1)
Earl Burns (3)
The First Mate (9)
- Where The Captain Can't See (1)
- Treasure Map (0)
Francois LaCroix (8)
Burt Jebsen (8)
- Dirty Cheater (1)
Iron Skeeter (6)
- Poorly Handled Explosives (0)
Lightning Bug (5)
Lightning Bug (5)

There is stones left, so i can take DC on Zipp as 3rd upgrade, if im not sure about how i will play schemes.
Zipp is my disrupt, he moves enemy models, or supresses scary chargy things like Rail Golem, Langston or Killjoy with "twitching" condition.
Earl is mostly for marker-placing. But i can use masks-aura turn 2, or turn 3.

First Mate is my anti-scemerun + his Pounce can be good for "free" kill sometimes.
Franc - my master-killing tool. It's deployed near skeeter and Burt, but i activate him turn 1, and walk ahead. Skeeter then makes him fast. He's activated already, so he will have fast turn 2.
Franc slowly follows Zipp for supre-killy combo. Zipp "Up we goes" enemy master close to your crew, Franc activates via companion, and charges enemy master with 4 AP. Few can survive that.
Burt and Skeeter work together from turn 2. Skeeter gives fast to Burt, and places him where he is needed. Also, skeeter goes as "Sucker" target, he's annoying, so enemy wants it off the table asap.
Bugs, well, they are just best 5ss minion we have. Quick, good at schemerun, with decent atack action, acces to heal and so on. They act as schemerunners, or go for killing heavy armored opponents. Yes, 2\3\3 is not much, but 3+3+3 is 9m with ignore armor. And that's kinda ok. Heavy-armored models rarely have more then 9 wounds.

If i expect alot of scheme markers, i can switch bugs(Or 1 bug and Franc) for Fingers with stilts. He is walking medkit with good resilence, and amazing shemerunning capabilities.
Rarely, i can use dread pirate Zipp with 2 bayou gremlins. It's 9+1 activations at the start of the game, and it's good for interacting on the enemy side of the field.

I hope, my post will help you. It's not much, but that's what i learned playing Zipp. And sorry for my broken English. If i knew Engish better, i would translate my Zipp guide in it.

[Adran]

Most seems good,but you can't do the smoke screen prison the way you have drawn it. It must all touch zipp and not another model. Unless you are creating the spot then attack twice to get zipped out and target in.

[DanteJH]

Many thanks @Platov!