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Meliondor

How to Alpha?

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I have read here that Guild gets a very strong Alpha Strike with some Masters and this is something I really like as playstile. Buw how?

 

Sonnia: It seems like she should be able to shoot in the opponents deployment zone first turn. This means at least 11" movement...but no. She can walk only 4". Dr Grimwell could move her 4", Quegg 3"....but I see no option for 11" ?

Similar with Perdita. The totem can give some movement but still....not 10"?

Nellie should be able to get some alphas going with giving out fast + her messing with the activation order. But stil...everything is so slow. Bishop for example can only charge 7" + 1" reach...so he will never be able to deliver all his action points as attacks.

 

Am I missing some easy to gain movement stuff guild has?

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McCabe is a good enabler, but won't help other masters. Brutal emissary can be used to move models with some out of activation actions. Depending on what you're facing, one of the reasons for out activation is because your target will hopefully be nearer to you so less ap spent on movement. 

Perdita can push to a family member, and you can either move one up, or from the shadows Nino for maximum range. Or she can use obey to move your alpha striker 3 times before it activates. 

 

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I have never tried an alpha strike team. I do not think that games are fun. According to what I read on the forum, most of the alpha lists used at the moment have 1 investigators (wave 5 model) who is used to generates pushes. I have seen somewhere on these forums a list composed of :

Sonnia with upgrade for chain activation

Dr Grimwell

Papa loco

investigator

Student of Conflict

20 points remaining to be used as you want

First activation : Student of conflict gives fast to Sonnia, chain activation on Papa who buffs Sonnia, scheme to push Sonnia (3"), and walk

Second activation, Grimwell schemes to push Sonnia (3"), walk toward her, and use his 1 to push her (4"), and you chain activate on Sonnia

You can also recruit a clockwork trap and use it as target for Sonnia and blast into the opponent team

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3 hours ago, Meliondor said:

I have read here that Guild gets a very strong Alpha Strike with some Masters and this is something I really like as playstile. Buw how?

 

Sonnia: It seems like she should be able to shoot in the opponents deployment zone first turn. This means at least 11" movement...but no. She can walk only 4". Dr Grimwell could move her 4", Quegg 3"....but I see no option for 11" ?

Similar with Perdita. The totem can give some movement but still....not 10"?

Nellie should be able to get some alphas going with giving out fast + her messing with the activation order. But stil...everything is so slow. Bishop for example can only charge 7" + 1" reach...so he will never be able to deliver all his action points as attacks.

 

Am I missing some easy to gain movement stuff guild has?

with investigator Sonnia does not need to walk even once to get to the middle of the board on turn one. This is Tim's de Groot list he made to take advantage of all the pushes the Guild has to unleash hell on turn one (the list was published in "Guild in the competitive scene right now" thread, where you can read more about how it works):

Declared Faction: Guild 
Crew Name: Sonnia Poland 50ss 
Leader: Sonnia - Cache:(3)
   Cherufe's Imprint 1ss 
   Cherufes Parting Gift 1ss 
   Counterspell Aura 1ss 
Malifaux Child 2ss 
Francisco Ortega 8ss 
   Hermanos De Armas 1ss 
   Wade In 1ss 
Dr. Grimwell 9ss 
   Expert Sleuth 1ss 
Papa Loco 7ss 
   Expert Sleuth 1ss 
Brutal Effigy 4ss 
Guild Investigator 6ss 
Watcher 4ss  

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21 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

with investigator Sonnia does not need to walk even once to get to the middle of the board on turn one. This is Tim's de Groot list he made to take advantage of all the pushes the Guild has to unleash hell on turn one (the list was published in "Guild in the competitive scene right now" thread, where you can read more about how it works):

Declared Faction: Guild 
Crew Name: Sonnia Poland 50ss 
Leader: Sonnia - Cache:(3)
   Cherufe's Imprint 1ss 
   Cherufes Parting Gift 1ss 
   Counterspell Aura 1ss 
Malifaux Child 2ss 
Francisco Ortega 8ss 
   Hermanos De Armas 1ss 
   Wade In 1ss 
Dr. Grimwell 9ss 
   Expert Sleuth 1ss 
Papa Loco 7ss 
   Expert Sleuth 1ss 
Brutal Effigy 4ss 
Guild Investigator 6ss 
Watcher 4ss  

 

and suddenly a wild nekima or yasunori flies in and kills half the crew without a flinch.

I think it is pretty hard to play that way. Especially if your opponent spreads far out it gets even harder. And then you still want a burning target or you gotta focus at least for the first attack.

 

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2 hours ago, Lokibri said:

and suddenly a wild nekima or yasunori flies in and kills half the crew without a flinch. 

I think it is pretty hard to play that way. Especially if your opponent spreads far out it gets even harder. And then you still want a burning target or you gotta focus at least for the first attack.

It's a "hit or miss" list. If you don't like it, you don't have to play it. But if you suggest the list is bad, then evidence speaks against you, as Tim was 15th playing only that list at Polish Nationals and it is also popular in competitive scene in US. Spreading out sometimes does not help at all, as my game against Tim at Nationals has demonstrated.

Edit: you don't have to focus, you have positives to damage flip.

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1 hour ago, Lokibri said:

and suddenly a wild nekima or yasunori flies in and kills half the crew without a flinch.

I think it is pretty hard to play that way. Especially if your opponent spreads far out it gets even harder. And then you still want a burning target or you gotta focus at least for the first attack.

 

Depends on the table and the opponent. Not everyone is going to realise the necessity of spreading out and hugging cover when facing this crew. Depending on your hand, available targets and quality of cover you could be getting the ball rolling with straight flips to hit and damage against something even if they've done their best to hide out.

Of course it's not as simple as pushing Sonnia's into place and wiping your opponent off the board, but the same goes for Yasunori and Nekima. Having the potential to nuke some important models turn 1/2 is generally useful, even if your opponent is canny enough to play around it.

 

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Here are a few of my favorites.  As usual, they might not always work depending on your opponents plan, but that's malifaux for you,-

Nellie, emissary with curfew, frank, papa, grimwell lobotomy bomb- papa gives buff to grimwell, frank gives buff to grimwell, Nellie gives fast to emissary and grimwell then uses propaganda to put grimwell in the box.  Emissary triple walks, then slows any unactivated enemies.  Grimwell walks in and focuses if he can, then lobotomizes someone for 10.  Does not work on masters or henchmen.  Do another lobotomy at beginning of next turn, then expect to lose grimwell.

 

Lucius-papa-mctavish- queller.- papa buffs mctav.  Queller buffs mctav.  Let some activations pass.  Lucius puts mctav almost anywhere within 8" if his current location with a scheme marker in base to base to eat, and hopefully gives him a free attack.  Mctav kicks debt to the guild and takes three more shots into opposing crew. (You can do similar with Santiago, especially with jury to give masks)

LJ- sword fighter expert sleuth and ashwood coffin, papa loco, a bunch of lower cost models- papa goes first and bluffs by buffing lj.  All the chaff goes. Box papa.  Then LJ double walks to opposing pile of models.  Next turn you either let papa out at the beginning of ljs activation (which will let you more easily get lj to safety) or you release him on the first of a charge attack by attempting ashwood coffin.  Chain activate into papa, and kablooey.

Sonnia- I think they mostly covered it above.  I've also used nurse HB to push her, but that's suit intensive.  With investigators that's probably the better option.

Hoffman can alpha but I don't really like it in the current meta.  I think he's better as a hard to kill brick.  

I ran a Mcmourning one once that was 2 cerebus, a mounted guard and a swamp mother to give them all+2 to charge. I don't think that was good though.

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8 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

It's a "hit or miss" list. If you don't like it, you don't have to play it. But if you suggest the list is bad, then evidence speaks against you, as Tim was 15th playing only that list at Polish Nationals and it is also popular in competitive scene in US. Spreading out sometimes does not help at all, as my game against Tim at Nationals has demonstrated.

Edit: you don't have to focus, you have positives to damage flip.

Oh, no, no. Don`t misunderstand me please :). I totally get the power of that list, but i can see a huge problem with some models that might appear :). For me it didn`t work out that well. The problem with the focus was not that you want the +dmg flip, but you want to hit at all. If i see a Sonnia, i would never get out of cover in turn 1. And with that list, it is pretty hard to inflict burning on them i think :).

 

8 hours ago, lusciousmccabe said:

Depends on the table and the opponent. Not everyone is going to realise the necessity of spreading out and hugging cover when facing this crew. Depending on your hand, available targets and quality of cover you could be getting the ball rolling with straight flips to hit and damage against something even if they've done their best to hide out.

Of course it's not as simple as pushing Sonnia's into place and wiping your opponent off the board, but the same goes for Yasunori and Nekima. Having the potential to nuke some important models turn 1/2 is generally useful, even if your opponent is canny enough to play around it.

 

Jeah, many factors are taken into consideration, but a good list differs from a bad list in its probabilities and i just see more requirements here than options :). But on the other hand i might not have enough experience with her to judge like that :). Maybe i will make a new experience with this list.

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8 hours ago, Lokibri said:

Oh, no, no. Don`t misunderstand me please :). I totally get the power of that list, but i can see a huge problem with some models that might appear :). For me it didn`t work out that well. The problem with the focus was not that you want the +dmg flip, but you want to hit at all. If i see a Sonnia, i would never get out of cover in turn 1. And with that list, it is pretty hard to inflict burning on them i think :).

 

It's hard to ensure everything is going to be in cover when sonnia is pushing so far, and even if they managed it the best thing is probably to spend stones on the attack, one for the positive flip to cancel cover and one to get the burning trigger.

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7 hours ago, Adran said:

It's hard to ensure everything is going to be in cover when sonnia is pushing so far, and even if they managed it the best thing is probably to spend stones on the attack, one for the positive flip to cancel cover and one to get the burning trigger.

It seems like in the current meta I see enough wp6 to get the plus to hit built in on the rate occasion I play Sonnia.  But then I play against a lot of TT

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On 6/23/2018 at 2:42 PM, 4thstringer said:

 

LJ- sword fighter expert sleuth and ashwood coffin, papa loco, a bunch of lower cost models- papa goes first and bluffs by buffing lj.  All the chaff goes. Box papa.  Then LJ double walks to opposing pile of models.  Next turn you either let papa out at the beginning of ljs activation (which will let you more easily get lj to safety) or you release him on the first of a charge attack by attempting ashwood coffin.  Chain activate into papa, and kablooey.

.

I have a questions  regarding the LJ alpha. As I always understood the swordfighter upgrade, Lady J Has to be the One burying the target in Order to be able to unbury it again. The way i understand your Order of activations, Emmissary burys, Lady J unburys. Is this correct and legit? 

Would bei very neat!

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Laser 3000 said:

I have a questions  regarding the LJ alpha. As I always understood the swordfighter upgrade, Lady J Has to be the One burying the target in Order to be able to unbury it again. The way i understand your Order of activations, Emmissary burys, Lady J unburys. Is this correct and legit? 

Would bei very neat!

Lady j buries papa at the start of her activation.  I don't use the emissary in this build because it doesn't work like that.

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Emissary is potentially good if you want justice to alpha strike, But that's a whole different plan. 

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35 minutes ago, Adran said:

Emissary is potentially good if you want justice to alpha strike, But that's a whole different plan. 

And, keep in mind that if you want to put Papa in the box, if you then box LJ, papa comes back out.

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Declared Faction: Guild 
Crew Name: McCabe deep strike 50ss 
Leader: Lucas McCabe - Cache:(2)
   Cloak of Invisibility 1ss 
   Loot Bag 1ss 
   Strangemetal Shirt 1ss 
Student of Conflict 4ss 
Francisco Ortega 8ss 
   A Debt To The Guild 1ss 
   Lead Lined Coat 1ss 
Brutal Emissary 10ss 
   Conflux of Exploration 0ss 
Abuela Ortega 7ss 
Guild Investigator 6ss 
Thalarian Queller 6ss

30” range 4 ml7 min damage 4 attacks no damage reduction.  Hard if not impossible to stop.  Just don’t use against targets with push away  or similar def triggers.

 

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Not too hard to stop if your opponent has a bury/paralyze and activations on you, which at 7 in the crew they probably should.

Between Abuela and a Death Marshal or the Emissary you can get anybody up the board turn one no problem. I like Hopkins in the Emissary with Sonnia to rock forward and kill something bottom of 1.

In order to get a full-on alpha strike to land though you need tempo control. Guild Guard and Hound spam could work, or just Nellie passing activations.

Perdita with Fastest Draw can set up to alpha top of turn 2 with a reasonable expectation of winning initiative, but it's a definite gamble.

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