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Dr4mis

Summoning as Kirai or resurrectionist

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Hi, I just want some information about how to summon with the resurrectionist. I want to know how does summoning works because at this time I'm generally able to summon a Shikome or The hanged once in a turn with Kirai. Foremore with the summoning of Ikyrio and the summon of gaki once in a while with Datsue Bae, my opponent don't even want to play against me because they say it's to easy to summon as a resurrectionist so it make the game unbalanced.  
 
So if someone can answer me on these questions it would be great: 
 
1- As Kirai, how to summon and can I summon more then once in a turn since it's a (1) action?
2-Is their any erata or modification on Kirai' s card to balance her (cause my opponents always telling that she is broken)?
3- If I sacrifice Ikyrio and if a friendly living or  undead model suffers damage during the same turn can I re-summon Ikyrio with the Malevolence ability? If so, does Ikyrio can activate and use one attack and re-sacrifice her-self with her second (1) action?
4- Does summoning as a resurectionist demand a soulstone cost from the in game-cache to successfuly summon it?
5- How can you manage to win vs a crew that have to potential to summon for around 8 soulstones per turn? (even if the model is half-wounded on summon)  
 
Thank you for the answer in advance! 
***sorry if I have mistake in my text*** 
 
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You can summon as manu times as you have the actions for and the resources usualy the right card (and having the appropriate model of course).

Some summoning actions may have other restrctions but these will be noted with the action on the cards. It does not need any additional soul stones unless specified by the action.

For example Kirai has the restriction of only being able to summon resurrectionist spirit minions and must be summoned in base contact witha friendly model within range.

Kirai dosnt have any errata to her and summoning isnt particularly broken or unbalanced. To defeat summoning you have to build your lists appropriatly (which may be difficult if your opponents only have limited collections) and learn to play to thier lists strengths and take advantage of your lists weaknesses.

The best way to beat summoning is to put pressure on the summoner and drain the crews resources, summoning often needs high cards which leaves the rest of the crew without them for other actions and for dules. If a crew needs cards for defence then it wont have them for summoning and vice versa.

Also make sure you are playing with schemes and stratagies (malifaux dosnt really work if your not using them its not a game designed for streight up fights), some of these are unfavourable to summoning as they give up vital VP. Remember its possible to be tabled and still win if you are playing to your schemes and stratagies.

I would suggest getting your opponents to read tactics for thier crews or even swapping crews with them for a game so they can see how summoning crews work.

Ikiryo can be summoned and activated multiple times a turn but this is very resource intensive (which again leaves less for your crew to function) and requiers your opponents to target the correct models to activate malevolence. Your opponents will need to learn how to identify the best targets and determine thier activation order to best combat the ability, but this is something that will come the more they play. The more games you play the better you will get.

 

 

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What kind of games have you played so far? SS size, which strategies and schemes, which crews has your friend used?

To give a half joke answer, way you win against a summoner is getting more VP than they do hah.

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You can summon Ikiryo several times in a turn but if she is already on the table you are not allowed to summon her again because she is rare 1. Kirai can kill her by summoning something else from her or she can sacrifice herself so you can summon her again.

Summoning is annoying and takes some getting used to facing but can usually be countered. Your mate could come online and ask for some tips in their faction forum.

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7 hours ago, Dr4mis said:

1- As Kirai, how to summon and can I summon more then once in a turn since it's a (1) action?

To summon as a Kirai you need a friendly model you will summon from, and a card high enough to meet the requirements of summoning. Summoned model comes to the game with half of his wounds and deals wounds to your friendly model equal to half of the summoned model wounds total. For example, to summon a Hanged you need 13 crows. Summoned Hanged comes with 4 wounds inflicted and deals 4 wounds to the friendly model you are summoning from. Kirai can't summon if there is no friendly model she could use as a „resource”. Hopefully you were playing that correctly. Of course you can summon more then once per turn.

7 hours ago, Dr4mis said:

2-Is their any erata or modification on Kirai' s card to balance her (cause my opponents always telling that she is broken)? 

there's no errata, she is simply a good master with many exploitable weaknesses.

7 hours ago, Dr4mis said:

3- If I sacrifice Ikyrio and if a friendly living or  undead model suffers damage during the same turn can I re-summon Ikyrio with the Malevolence ability? If so, does Ikyrio can activate and use one attack and re-sacrifice her-self with her second (1) action?

Yes, that's possible. Your friend needs to adjust his gameplan to avoid that as possible, and not just brainlessly attack you every time he can. Notice that you need to discard a card each time to summon Ikiryo and you can't summon her if you don't have LoS to summoned Ikiryo with Kirai. If you play with at least 1/3 of the board covered with terrain, which I consider a minimum in Malifaux game, your friend at least sometimes should be able to hit something in such a way that Kirai has no LoS to summon Ikiryo.

7 hours ago, Dr4mis said:

4- Does summoning as a resurectionist demand a soulstone cost from the in game-cache to successfuly summon it?

Often it does. As you can see on her card, Kirai needs two crows in duel total to summon, whereas only one is baked in the action. So you need a high crow in your hand to summon something like Shikome or Hanged, or you have to spend a soulstone to add a crow to duel total. That's why Kirai want's to start a game with full cache (7 ss) and thus can't hire that much as her opponent.

7 hours ago, Dr4mis said:

5- How can you manage to win vs a crew that have to potential to summon for around 8 soulstones per turn? (even if the model is half-wounded on summon)

You win by getting VP. Proper scheme selection and crew adjustment is crucial. Kirai is certainly not the strongest summoner in the game, although she can be the strongest master your friend played against (especially if he hasn't played against any other ;))

I have a suggestion for you guys to swap crews from time to time. Your friend can then better understand Kirai's weaknesses, and you, who know them, can show him how to exploit them. What crew is he playing btw?

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9 hours ago, Nikodemus said:

What kind of games have you played so far? SS size, which strategies and schemes, which crews has your friend used?

To give a half joke answer, way you win against a summoner is getting more VP than they do hah.

I'd want to know this also.  Summoning can feel VERY powerful in small games.  Hopefully you're playing at 50 ss

Kirai is generally a pretty solid summoner.  Her weaknesses are that what she summons can be a bit fragile (Ca actions wreck Kirai's crew hard) and she herself is possibly our most fragile master (up there with Reva and Tara).  That can get rough in a master that enjoys throwing her crew around as much as Kirai does.

Note:  "Fragile" in that Resser models are generally really tanky; so Df 4 with 10 wounds and a nice (but not baked in) defensive trigger makes keeping her alive in the face of a sustained beating unpleasent.  She can be cagey to get to, but if you can put a big beater in her face odds are she won't enjoy it.

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Ikyrio can be nasty but is something that can be played around.  The model that is being attacked needs to within 6 inches and have line of sight to Kirai. There also has to be room to place Ikiryo in base to base contact with the attacking model. Ikyrio also needs to be placed where Kirai has line of sight to her. 

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Well first of all thanks for all the answer, I was not expecting answer that quickly 😀 

But yeah we are playing 50ss each game and he's playing as the neverborn.  We are changing master regurally since we have the models, but I love summoners.

Thanks for the advice of switching the faction so he can see what it is! And I gonna talk with him about how he play the strategy and decide schemes. 

 

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What masters does he have? i started as Neverborn, and my friend played resser, so i can offer some help on what to do for what master he plays as.

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This is for #5:

That's kinda surprising, if he has everything, then have him play as the Dreamer, since he can be a summoner too, and that he can learn a summoner's weakeness/strengths.

If he doesn't want to play as a summoner, Here are tips for him with the neverborn masters I do play as

Dreamer: hire a nightmare crew, and hire/summon all his totem, which can push 2 nightmares each per turn, and have a model with "on dreaming wings", to give all nightmares within 6" flight. then have the crew move up to yours as fast as possible, and put pressure on yours. the dreamer can summon a beater next to kirai, and companion into him, and attack with a ML7 attack, then either you have to spend your cards/SS on keeping her alive, or keep them to summon. In the meantime, have his scheme runners/models focus on VP.

Lilith: a few options, Lilith is good at guerilla attacks, have her attack your key models, if you have Philip and the nanny and a necropunk for card cycling, try to lure/swap/charge and go those models to prevent you from gaining the cards you need. if you have some flesh construct to summon off of, do the same to them, Lilith can lure, lilitu can lure pretty far, if he can lure kirai away, that would even be better. The other option, is have him run a grow list. there is an upgrade that lets terror totes turn into young nephilim, and them into mature nephilim, when they kill a model, or when the one holding the upgrade does, kirai summons half wounded models,by wounding other models, so there should be weak models for his crew to kill, and summon more expensive models too.

Zoraida: take "Animal Shape" and "Hex Bag", have zoraida move up as much as possible, and hex kirai, with the ability to not use soulstones. ( she should be able to do that on turn 2), this should make it harder for you to summon, and it lasts until zoraida activates again, and it's a (0) ap. zoraida's animal shape is a place, so she could set herself up somewhere to keep her safe, otherwise, zoraida should still be safe, unless you have some good ranged df attacks.

Pandora: she doesn't have anything against summoner, but she has a lot of Ca, which is good againsts Incorporeal things, as well as misery. Pandora is also good at paralazying things.

You might also want to ask the neverborn Forum too. I only play these 4 masters.

 

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How can a person who own full Neverborn faction say that summoning is a problem? :)

Zoraida doesn't care about summoning at all. You summon Hanged? Nice, she will Obey it and you will suffer from Whispers. Summoned Shikome? Nice, easy 1AP charges in your own models :)

Pandora have lot of CA actions and lot of "passive" damage from Misery

Lilith can take out any key model she likes with her place shenanigans without LoS

Dreamer is an awesome summoner on his own

Collody can play his Schemes and doesn't really care about amount of your models. And some kind of "obey" will prevent you from summoning Hanged

Summoning can be frustrating for a new player, that's true. But it's not something unique and Kirai is not the scariest summoner 

 

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Titania actually chews up summoners. Royal indignation makes her basically immune to minions and is decent if you don't know what to expect. Pact with the grave spirit is super mean against summoners though. Get in that 3" bubble and prevent soulstone use and you've just made summoning really hard.

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