Rules for Placements

[Haldlugal]

Hi all! 

Couldn't find answer about this question, so will ask it. 

Where can you place models with "Place" keyword? For example, can Titania fly on an edge of a roof and then place a model in base to base on empty space near her (without any roof) so model will immediately fall down?

Sorry for my English and thanks :)

[Ludvig]

The general opinion is that you need to place it in a legal spot on the table/terrain so you can't place them without their base supported, goes for both markers and models. The rules aren't 100% clear but the alternative is pretty bad in my opinion.

[Ludvig]

The general opinion is that you need to place it in a legal spot on the table/terrain so you can't place them without their base supported, goes for both markers and models. The rules aren't 100% clear but the alternative is pretty bad in my opinion.

There are models that place enemies within a distance and not btb which woud mean Lilith and Zipp for example could instantly kill any model because they could place them 100 inches into the air and ake them automatically die to falling.

[solkan]

This is the point where it is necessary to point out a few things:

• Falling, as a mechanic, is defined as something that happens during movement.  Physically picking up a model, holding it over the table, and opening your hand does not cause it to suffer falling damage as far as the game is concerned.
• "Placing" is defined in a sidebar on page 51 of the M2E rule book or page 60 of the Rules Manual, "Placement Effects".  

Please take the sentence "Placement is not movement, the model is simply put into the position described by the rule." as directly as possible.  You, a person, cannot physically put a model in the air where it will stay.  Just like you can't physically put a model physically inside a solid object.

[Ludvig]

Good points Solkan. Doesn't that make pushes off elevation weird in regards to falling?

[solkan]

3 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Good points Solkan. Doesn't that make pushes off elevation weird in regards to falling?

Not really, because pushes are clarified by the FAQ (particularly the question about when a pushed model falls) to be subject to that particular movement rule.

I'll admit that the movement rules have the same sort of phrasing issues that much of the rest of the rules do, but it comes down to a partial list of the ways for a model to change physical location on the table:

• Move - Movement.  Can fall.
• Push - Movement subject to different rules, and not a "Move".  Can fall.
• Place - Not movement.  Cannot fall.

 

[santaclaws01]

To come at this from a different angle, if you could place models in the air, whats to stop Zipp from just always placing models 10 feet in the air every time he hits them with Up We Go? At that point don't even give the attack a damage track, it's just an execute for anything that isn't a flyer or that 1/x chance a soulstone user flips the RJ on a prevention flip.

[Ludvig]

@santaclaws01

I menionwd Zipp and Lilith by name a few replies up.

[WWHSD]

Difference in elevation makes no difference for a place effect does it? If you have a 6 inch place, you can put the model on top of a Ht3 building that is 6 inches away from it's starting point, right? Spending the 3 inches to cover the vertical movement would only apply to moves and pushes.

[santaclaws01]

2 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

@santaclaws01

I menionwd Zipp and Lilith by name a few replies up.

I somehow completely missed that whole post while reading the thread. Oops

[spydr261]

On 5/25/2018 at 1:29 PM, WWHSD said:

Difference in elevation makes no difference for a place effect does it? If you have a 6 inch place, you can put the model on top of a Ht3 building that is 6 inches away from it's starting point, right? Spending the 3 inches to cover the vertical movement would only apply to moves and pushes.

I don't think this is true. You add differences in elevation when determining range don't you? Or am I wrong?

[Ludvig]

52 minutes ago, spydr261 said:

I don't think this is true. You add differences in elevation when determining range don't you? Or am I wrong?

All measurmentd are done from a strict top down point of view unless something specifically references ht. It's very early in the base rules.

[santaclaws01]

4 hours ago, spydr261 said:

I don't think this is true. You add differences in elevation when determining range don't you? Or am I wrong?

You only add the difference of Ht for movement and engagement range.

 

[WWHSD]

16 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

You only add the difference of Ht for movement and engagement range.

 

You also do it for engagement ranges and close attacks when the lower model's Ht is less than or equal to the difference in elevation.

 

Big Core, pg. 44:
"Engagement Elevation
If two models are on different elevations, the
elevation difference is added to the distance
between them when determining engagement
range and range for Attack Actions, unless
the lower model has a Ht greater than the
elevation difference."

[Haldlugal]

Thanks for your answers guys!