Grace's Potential in Ulix

[DonCheadle]

My professed love for Ulix is apparent, but I've never tried Gracie in his lists before (mostly because I already have the Sow, who is pretty good, and don't have Gracie). 

I'm slowly getting back to playing the Pig Herder and was wondering why no one talks about the biggest beats potential our faction has to offer. 

I'm talking about using Gracie in conjunction with Old Major, Penelope, and the Huntin Bow upgrade. 

Both Penelope and Major can push her up (to a total of 8"), with Old Major giving her Rams on all flips (thus mitigating the potential backlash from her Crow trigger). Gracie now boasts an impressive 4/6/8 damage profile. Then you shot in the rear for a charge that can easily turn into multiple charges if she manages to kill the initial target. If you get stuck, you even have the option to call her back via Sooey and shot in the rear once again. 

And at that point she hasn't even activated yet. Giving her reactivate via her 0 lets her attack another two times. 

Overall this gives you around 8 ml6 min 4 attacks, with the potential for more if she manages to kill her shot in the rear targets. 

 

That's insane. What do you think? 

[daniello_s]

Paired with Major's auto-Rams seems very tasty. I was going to use her myself in Ulix's crew where she would replace The Sow. Definitely it is worthy trying.

[James Dyson]

Definitely give her a whirl.  In my experiences with Gracie, I’ve found that she’s just too squishy with all the ignores-armor flying about my meta.

That said, her damage potential is ludicrous (like most Pigs) plus she’s ace in Supply Wagons with that built in reactivate.  Then there’s the aesthetic- she’s just such a fun model to see on the field!

[edopersichetti]

On paper it's insane, and on the table definitely worth trying. However

- if she gets pushed too far away, then she's definitely out of range of Sooey and anything else (including more shots in the rear)
- the shot needs a ram (not built in) so it'll be burning your SS quite quickly
- why 8 attacks? I count 2 for the first (free) charge due to shot in the rear, then 2+2 in her activation and reactivation
- All the attacks and pushes don't happen at the same time. There's a Penelope activation, a Major activation, a Ulix activation, and 2 Gracie activations. The opponent can focus on her after each of those - charge her, shoot her, just hit her if she's in melee. Df 5 and 8 Wds are doable, yes she can heal if she kills something but that is not guaranteed.
At least, putting myself in the opponent's shoes, that's what I would do.

That being said, if you catch your opponent unawares and choose your targets wisely, I agree that min damage 4 is bonkers. It's kind of...a pig version of Nekima
In fact, Nekima is usually played in similar style - you push her up, she kicks ass...and then she usually dies

So yeah definitely interesting to try on the board.

[DonCheadle]

57 minutes ago, edopersichetti said:

On paper it's insane, and on the table definitely worth trying. However

- if she gets pushed too far away, then she's definitely out of range of Sooey and anything else (including more shots in the rear)
- the shot needs a ram (not built in) so it'll be burning your SS quite quickly
- why 8 attacks? I count 2 for the first (free) charge due to shot in the rear, then 2+2 in her activation and reactivation
- All the attacks and pushes don't happen at the same time. There's a Penelope activation, a Major activation, a Ulix activation, and 2 Gracie activations. The opponent can focus on her after each of those - charge her, shoot her, just hit her if she's in melee. Df 5 and 8 Wds are doable, yes she can heal if she kills something but that is not guaranteed.
At least, putting myself in the opponent's shoes, that's what I would do.

That being said, if you catch your opponent unawares and choose your targets wisely, I agree that min damage 4 is bonkers. It's kind of...a pig version of Nekima
In fact, Nekima is usually played in similar style - you push her up, she kicks ass...and then she usually dies

So yeah definitely interesting to try on the board.

Maybe, but between Armor 2 and HTK (and Dirty Cheater) I'd doubt they'd be able to kill her in a single activation barring something like the Viks. 

What I'm more worried about are conditions. Rooted would be pretty nasty to deal with, Grems don't have great condo removal. 

[edopersichetti]

11 minutes ago, DonCheadle said:

Maybe, but between Armor 2 and HTK (and Dirty Cheater) I'd doubt they'd be able to kill her in a single activation barring something like the Viks. 

What I'm more worried about are conditions. Rooted would be pretty nasty to deal with, Grems don't have great condo removal. 

Nope, not in one activation...but she gives 2 Wds to herself for reactivate so there's that. I've played her a lot in my early Gremlin days - and she died more often that I would expect, sadly. Not much you can do to heal her, once she's up there tangled, unless she manages to kill something.

Plus, of course, conditions, you're right, something I didn't even think about. A common Paralyzed or Slow, and the toy is broken because...no charge...and then of course Poison, the scourge of Hard to Kill

As I and the others said, def worth a try, I'm now even more pessimistic though

[DonCheadle]

I don't know, you can still use the bow to great effect even if she does get paralyzed. As for fragility, if she ever kills something she gets to go back to full HP, so they really need to do it in one swing, which I'd say is difficult. 

We're in Gremlins, everything considered, and Ulix can summon, so we should be 2-3 activations ahead of the enemy,especially after the first run in with Gracie. 

You only get 8 attacks if you manage to Sooey her back, but you also get 8 if you manage to kill a model on the Rear Charge. Here her rg1 actually helps her not get tied up in multiple combats. 

[edopersichetti]

9 hours ago, DonCheadle said:

I don't know, you can still use the bow to great effect even if she does get paralyzed. As for fragility, if she ever kills something she gets to go back to full HP, so they really need to do it in one swing, which I'd say is difficult. 

I'm pretty sure Paralyzed models can't take any actions (let alone charge) - this was FAQd if I'm not wrong.

The "if" she ever kills is a big "if": from my experience (and I have played her many times!!) is more like "if she doesn't" kill something, then she's in trouble. If you can dodge already 1 out of 2 of her attacks, it's likely her target will survive. Opponent doesn't need to kill her in one swing, it can kill her in six swing if he wants to, he just needs to survive her attacks. So at the very least, she should go very late in the turn, so the opponent has already activated all or most of his models.

Joss has same features (Armor +2 and HtK) PLUS he has 9Wds and he can use SS....he still dies  

9 hours ago, DonCheadle said:

We're in Gremlins, everything considered, and Ulix can summon, so we should be 2-3 activations ahead of the enemy,especially after the first run in with Gracie. 

Yes, but I see a timing conflict. If you want to out-activate, I guess you need to activate Ulix rather early. Since he's the guy using Shot in the Rear, Gracie needs to be already in position. So the activation order is Penelope > Major >...> Ulix > Gracie. In that ... you might want to activate other models (otherwise she goes at activation 4) and she's out there exposed (because with no LoS she wouldn't be able to charge).
Also, Ulix is the same guy for summoning and shooting: if you use 1AP for shooting, that's only 2 summons, so the out-activation might not be so massive...especially these days with 3SS Guild Guards etc.

9 hours ago, DonCheadle said:

You only get 8 attacks if you manage to Sooey her back, but you also get 8 if you manage to kill a model on the Rear Charge. Here her rg1 actually helps her not get tied up in multiple combats. 

Ok but if you Sooey and shoot her again that's all of 3AP for Ulix - so no summoning. Also, I'm a bit skeptical about Sooey, it's only range 8, she is probably gonna be too far due to 8" push + 6" charge...
Kill a model on Rear charge is a nice idea but say opponent dodges 1 out of 2 attacks, the other one does min damage (4)...target is still alive. Unless you're targeting a 4Wds model (probably Peon or cheap Minion) in which case it's probably a waste of her...talents

I'm only saying, on paper looks great, but there's a lot of theory - one needs to see how it works in practice, with the rest of the crew, and depending what opponent you're facing. I look forward to doing that!

[daniello_s]

It takes a lot of setup and it can be countered too easily. IMO if you want to utilize Shot 2 Rear effectively you need 2-3 possible models you can use it on (Grace, Sow and say one Swine Cursed or even Mech Porkchop) so opponent won't be sure where it will come from. That's why i prefer to hire more expensive Pigs and focus on t1/t2 on summoning Piglets