It's a Small Game we Play

[catbat07]

Hi Fauxers, I noticed a little bit of a phenomenon recently when reading trough AWP and the forums. Now, many of you have undoubtedly already noticed this, but I get the feeling that with all the talk of Nicodeep and the July errata, people continue to try to find conclusive evidence to win the power balance argument one way or another, when such evidence, in my opinion, simply does not exist. So, I'm here to ask a question: are the most talented players in Malifaux right? While Sandeep and Nico undoubtedly need nerfing, have we discovered all there is to know about GG18 + all the models in the game? I'm of the opinion that no, we have not. With the recent Seamus resurgence, the Somer/Warpig thing and the Neverborn Serena shenanigans, all of which have (as far as I know) not been conclusively tested, could the Brewmaster secretly be Mid/High tier? Could Jakob Lynch be a disaster waiting to happen? Could Parker Barrows be the next great Collodi? But alas, I, like you, am only mortal, and so I ask you: do we know everything there is to know? Either way, looking forward to 2.5.

[Ludvig]

It's impossible to know if something has been missed, that doesn't mean it's wrong to errata something that is bad for the balance of the game right now.

As long as Lynch isn't an autopick he isn't a problem. If Brewie is decent then that is just great. In six months there might be a new set of masters that are felt to eclipse everything or we will fall into a large pack of similarly powerful masters so there are smaller discrepancies which is also good.

Every playtest has missed some broken combos and those are just the ones we know have been found so far. We can either deal with what we know is problematic right now or say: fuck it, we can never know so let's not change anything ever.

[Fetid Strumpet]

There is a resurgence of Seamus popularity not power. The 4th place finisher of adepticon’s achievement shouldn’t be undersold, but let’s also not dress it up for more than it is. 1st adepticon isn’t the tournament it once was, and the masters the played against almost all tournament were lower tier masters like him. He played against only one upper tier master first round, and that happens to be the only one that can have a rough time due to her wp 5.

Again I’m not underselling the achievement, it is a good one, but let’s also not oversell it. There is no Seamus resurgence.

[Math Mathonwy]

On 5/20/2018 at 10:09 AM, catbat07 said:

could the Brewmaster secretly be Mid/High tier?

No, I don't think so. He has such obvious weaknesses that are really difficult to fix and he has several absolutely abysmal match-ups.

On 5/20/2018 at 10:09 AM, catbat07 said:

Could Jakob Lynch be a disaster waiting to happen?

Far more likely!

On 5/20/2018 at 10:09 AM, catbat07 said:

Could Parker Barrows be the next great Collodi?

Nope. He does super complex stuff but the pay-off isn't all that. I really doubt you could somehow string together a truly borked super combo from him.

On 5/20/2018 at 10:09 AM, catbat07 said:

do we know everything there is to know?

I cheekily answered the example questions but yeah, this is a good point I think and I firmly believe that no, we don't know everything. This has been seen time and time again in Malifaux but also in various other complex games where suddenly a new combo arises and takes a previously low-mid-tier thing and catapults it into the top contention.

But this won't happen to all sub-par models. Not every ugly duckling is a swan. Most aren't. But I am utterly convinced that there are quite a few diamonds in the rough yet to be discovered. However I doubt that many of them will challenge, e.g., Nico as he currently stands.

[grim_stoki]

There are more possible games of chess than there are atoms in the universe. Chess will never be a solved game.

Still, expert chess players starting moves are similar, because there are only so many openings in chess which result in a strong position later in the game. 

Malifaux, and miniature games in general are similar. The opening moves (crew selection, scheme selection) are going to be the similar from game to game. Certain crews and masters are going to give you an advantage. But the decisions that happen after that are far from perfectly known.