Schemes & Stones Zoraida Crew Spotlight with Adam

[Khyodee]

Let us know what you think about this weeks show.

http://schemesandstones.podbean.com/e/episode-88-neverborn-zoraida-crew-spotlight-with-adam/

[Sharp_GT]

pretty interesting take @khyodee, I so rarely take zoraida that I've forgotten just how insane the voodoo doll really is. Thanks for sharing, and thanks to you guest!

[katadder]

some nice pointers on things to do with her. may have to give her a whirl

[Flib Jib]

@56:35 Bewitched doesn’t quite work that way. Attacks generated by a charge action don’t prove card draw. 

“Bewitched: Every time this model declares a Walk, Charge, or Attack Action which was not generated by a Charge, the Model which applied this Condition May draw two cards.” 

[katadder]

On 5/6/2018 at 5:26 PM, Thimblesage said:

@56:35 Bewitched doesn’t quite work that way. Attacks generated by a charge action don’t prove card draw. 

“Bewitched: Every time this model de Laura a Walk, Charge, or Attack Action which was not generated by a Charge, the Model which applied this Condition May draw two cards.” 

Was that on yasanori? Can't be bothered to listen again but yas can get 2 attacks from triggers which will benefit bewitched

[Flib Jib]

Quote

@56:35  "-- and if you can live the dream, If you get Bewitched on him (Yas) before you Obey him and get the Charge, you're golden at that point you'll have like 25 cards in your hand. Well it is important to note that the charge doesn't allow you to draw any cards, but the attacks do"

Yes it was regarding Yas and yes Yas has the double triggers which is nice but if Yas was Bewitched then declared a Charge, (either in-activation or prompted by an Obey) the opponent would only draw cards from the Charge and not from any of the subsequent attacks generated by the Charge.

[TeddyBear]

could you tell me if there is a way to have automatic subtitles to podcast? (such as those for deaf people)

i believe it would really help, for non english-speaker

[katadder]

1 hour ago, Thimblesage said:

Yes it was regarding Yas and yes Yas has the double triggers which is nice but if Yas was Bewitched then declared a Charge, (either in-activation or prompted by an Obey) the opponent would only draw cards from the Charge and not from any of the subsequent attacks generated by the Charge.

Yea not from the charge attacks but any attacks generated by the triggers do work as they are not generated from the charge. So normally you will get 2 extra attacks that are not from the charge 

[Flib Jib]

I can see your point. The triggers possibly could be considered the origin of the attacks which would proc Bewitched. However, and I'm unsure about this counterargument, but all these attacks including the ones from the trigger might be considered effects from the charge. below is some supporting examples.

 

Burt cannot use his Slippery ability against attacks from Charges or Flurries because those attacks are predicated on conditions/effects of the action that generated them.

Quote

6) Can Trixiebelle use "Don't Fight Over Me, Boys!" (or Burt use Slippery) to redirect Attacks from a Flurry or Charge Action? No, as she can only redirect Attack Actions to other legal targets. Flurry and Charge set her as the necessary targets, therefore making no other model a legal target for the resulting Attacks

 

Also for reference:

Quote

Actions Causing Actions
Some Actions will force or allow a model to take another Action. If an Action calls for another Action to be taken (such as Charge or "Make A New Entry") then the additional Action or Actions do not cost any AP. The original Action is not considered resolved until the new Actions are also resolved.

Some Abilities may force models to do something when declaring an Action (such as taking a duel for Manipulative). For these Abilities, each new Action generated triggers the Ability separately.

 

[Domin]

On 5/8/2018 at 6:47 PM, Thimblesage said:

I can see your point. The triggers possibly could be considered the origin of the attacks which would proc Bewitched. However, and I'm unsure about this counterargument, but all these attacks including the ones from the trigger might be considered effects from the charge. below is some supporting examples.

Attacks generated by Triggers are not considered as generated by Charge, even if the "triggering" Attack was actually generated by Charge.

For example, Yokai has an ability:

And his attack has an "additional-attack" trigger:

But the FAQ says that those additional attacks do not benefit from Frenzied Charge


 

Ergo, Zoraida loves models with additional attack triggers - her Bewitch+Obey combo can make them gold mines.

[shakes1066]

You keep talking about enemies with positive attacks and to watch these vs Zoraida but as far as I know they don’t counter proper manners. The only way to counter proper manners is with Focus or why mention focus at all?

[emiba]

Positive flips to attacks doesn't counter proper manners, but it does counter the effect of proper manners, bringing it back to straight flips and thus, cheatable.

[shakes1066]

No it’s still on a negative, all attack flips by enemy models suffer negative flips unless they benefit from focus. 

Positive flips do not get round it, ALL attack flips are on negatives unless they benefit from focus. 

If it was just a case of positives get round it why add the line “unless they benefit from focus” of course focus would get round it as it would just be a normal negative, there would be no reason to add this.

[Flib Jib]

32 minutes ago, shakes1066 said:

If it was just a case of positives get round it why add the line “unless they benefit from focus” of course focus would get round it as it would just be a normal negative, there would be no reason to add this.

This focus clause means that if the attacking model focuses, it doesn’t suffer the negative from proper manners and thus would be on a positive baring any other modifiers. Focus doesn’t simply cancel the negative, (which would put it on a straight flip) but nullifies Proper Maners changing the attack flip to a positive. 

 

Aside from that, positives and negatives still work the way they were written in the rule book. @emiba has it right.

 

”When determining how many cards to flip, the + and - symbols will cancel each other out on a one-to-one basis. Therefore, Fate Modifiers applied to a flip are always completely +, completely -, or none at all, after cancellations.”

[shakes1066]

Was looking at the app where it is written as “negative” rather than giving the ‘-‘ or ‘+’ had not noticed this in the app did this. Shame that way it made her a bit unique 

[Viruk]

One thing popped up in the podcast that I'm not sure about. It concerns the interaction between Voodoo Doll and Terrifying (all) models, such as Archie.

So, Doll gets summoned and takes the out-of-activation hem action against Archie. In order to take it, the Doll has to pass terrifying. Later, during its normal activation the Doll walks up to Archie/takes Hem against him again and then, my understanding is, doesn't have to pass the Terrifying again so the trick with paralyzing the doll and the target won't work in this case. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Adran]

2 hours ago, Viruk said:

One thing popped up in the podcast that I'm not sure about. It concerns the interaction between Voodoo Doll and Terrifying (all) models, such as Archie.

So, Doll gets summoned and takes the out-of-activation hem action against Archie. In order to take it, the Doll has to pass terrifying. Later, during its normal activation the Doll walks up to Archie/takes Hem against him again and then, my understanding is, doesn't have to pass the Terrifying again so the trick with paralyzing the doll and the target won't work in this case. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've not listened to the podcast, so I don't know what they say. You are right, you can't hem Archie, and then in the same turn try use his  horrifying to paralyse him.  But perhaps its a case of you hem 1 thing and then walk up to Archie and fail then. 

Hem lasts until this model takes the action again doesn't it? in which case I don't think it can try and hem a terryfying thing and use the paralysis it gets from that to pass across, because once you declare you are taking a hem action, you have lost the previous hem. (If it says until its sucessfully cast then ignore me)

[Ludvig]

You'd need to be terrified by something else if you already passed Archie's duel that turn.

[Lucky_Dice_6]

I have a question about Iggy, How can you consistant do 3 Burning?

In the Podcast i heard that Iggy is 5 point, so he doesn't have a single upgrade.
than you need to flip or cheat a extra tome in each attack.

Or am i missing something?

personally i put depression on his to make it more consistant.

[Viruk]

24 minutes ago, Lucky_Dice_6 said:

Or am i missing something?

 

Not really, Iggy pretty much Guarantees burning 4, and you either have to flip or cheat in to get  (or obey him with Zoraida for more attacks). Depression is cheap upgrade but it just feels somehow wrong to increase the 5ss of a model that is already great for its cost.

[shakes1066]

As I understand it..

If the voodoo doll relents then you can cheat in any tome , better to throw the tome in here rather than at depression and save the SS cost and upgrade slot.

[Corwin]

Could you also have depression and use a tome for even more burning?

[Sharp_GT]

On 5/21/2018 at 8:11 AM, Corwin said:

Could you also have depression and use a tome for even more burning?

yes, that works. +1 burning from the action, +1 from the built in tome, +1 from depression, +1 from card cheated in= +4 burning from (1)action! 

[wafew]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 4:25 AM, Lucky_Dice_6 said:

I have a question about Iggy, How can you consistant do 3 Burning?

Iggy has an attack : target gains +1 burning, he also has a trigger : for every  the target gains +1 burning. the attack comes with a free , so if you have, say, a 2 of  in your hand, then you do the attack with that card, +1, get the trigger automatically, +1, and another +1 for the card you played, +3 burning / ap spent.