Final duel total

[Paragon13]

So I am brand spanking new to Malifaux, bought the starter set, and played a couple test games against myself. I have a question: when a trigger specifies a number of suits in the "final duel total" does that include both the flip for success and the flip for damage?

Ie. I shoot with angel eyes' snapshot rifle, which states that she can hide in shadow on a mask, or critical strike on rams. Crit strike lets her get+1 damage for each ram in the final duel total. So I get a ram "to hit" and a ram for damage. To I get +2 damage?

Thank you so much! 

[santaclaws01]

The duel is already over when you start flipping for damage.

[solkan]

21 minutes ago, Paragon13 said:

So I am brand spanking new to Malifaux, bought the starter set, and played a couple test games against myself. I have a question: when a trigger specifies a number of suits in the "final duel total" does that include both the flip for success and the flip for damage?

Nope.  The duel total is the total you arrived at during the duel process, and while the rules mention "final duel total" in a few places as something that you'd expect to be fixed once you determine it, it's really each participant's running total for the duel.

Damage Flips, or any other Flips that happen as part of the action resolution are separate Flips.  Those flips don't add to the duel total for the action's main duel.

 

 

[Gulil]

Maybe to elaborate a little bit how you can get more rams in the final duel total:

One suit is always the card that you flipped or cheated, another suit can be bought by one soulstone before the flip (for henchmen or masters only) and some models already have a suit in their Ml or Sh stat. There are very few other methods that generate additional suits, the riders have some abilities for example or Lenny in gremlins faction gives rams to gremlins in an aura.

But as the other answers already wrote, the damage flip is no more part of the duel total

[Paragon13]

Thanks all. Can I get an example of a suit already in the stat?

Thanks.

[Morgan Vening]

1 hour ago, Paragon13 said:

Thanks all. Can I get an example of a suit already in the stat?

Thanks.

Just grabbing the first one I can find that's relevant...

Meaning that if Lady J flips (or cheats) a card with a Ram when attacking with her Greatsword, and stones for a Ram, she has Minimum damage 6. And unless she chooses a different trigger, which she might have access to via certain upgrades, (or has suits removed by another ability) she always has min damage 4.

Similarly, when using Restore Natural Order, she typically needs a 12 of any suit. Because the Ram needed for the Target Number is built in.

Counterwise, she will need a Crow to succeed at Covering Fire (either through cheating in a 5+ of Crows, or using a soulstone for Crows), because it's not built in.

[Paragon13]

So Morgan, In her sword attack, Lady J starts with a ram on the "to hit" duel, so that is an auto +1 for the trigger, then she gets or cheats a ram on the "damage" flip, and then uses a soulstone for an extra ram, so that is how she gets the minimum of 6 damage? (3 damage on weak +3 for the rams on duel, flip and soulstones use?)

That seems contrary to my question about about suits from the "to hit" duel adding to any suits in the damage step. Which they said that any suits in the duel don't add to the damage flip suits.

I really want to make sure that I'm understanding this right, since it is a base mechanic.

Thanks!!

[Trample]

16 minutes ago, Paragon13 said:

So Morgan, In her sword attack, Lady J starts with a ram on the "to hit" duel, so that is an auto +1 for the trigger, then she gets or cheats a ram on the "damage" flip, and then uses a soulstone for an extra ram, so that is how she gets the minimum of 6 damage? (3 damage on weak +3 for the rams on duel, flip and soulstones use?)

You're correct in the outcome, but it works slightly differently than you've described. Lady J receives one ram during the duel that is built into her stat. She needs to declare the trigger to get this, but it is automatic as long as she chooses to do so. If Lady J flips a card with a ram or cheats a card into the attack flip that is a ram she will now have a total of two rams. It is important that this occurs on the attack flip and not the damage flip. Those two rams would give Lady J +2 damage to bring her to a total of min 5. She can also declare the use of a soulstone before the flip to add another ram. That would bring the total to 3 rams and a minimum 6 damage. 

The only thing I'm really clarifying here is your statement about the ram on the damage flip. That flip cannot add a ram and will only determine the base damage outcome (3/4/6) after which you'll add the rams to to total (assuming you've declared that trigger). 

[Paragon13]

Perfect! Thank you all so much for helping a newbie!!

 

 

[Adran]

Just to make things clearer- an example

Lady Justice is attacking a terror tot and somehow has a positive attack flip 

She has a Ml stat of 7, the tot has a Df of 6. Because the tot has low life she chooses not to spend a soulstone here to add a suit to her final total. 

She flips a 4 and a 5 and the tot flips an 5

Lady Justice has to choose which card to use, and she chooses to use the 4

The current values are 11 vs 11. Lady Justice is winning so the tot has first chance to cheat.

The Tot cheats in a 6, giving it a total of 12. Its not Lady Justice's turn to cheat. She can no longer use the 5 because she has already selcted the 4from her flip so she will have to cheat a card in from her hand.  She uses the 12 giving her a total of 19 vs the Tots 12. Triggers are then announced. 

In this case the tot doesn't have one, and Lady Justice announces Critical strike.  Then the final total is calculated as 19 vs  12 so Lady Justice wins the duel with +2 damage to her damage flip because she had 2 Rams in the final total (It doesn't include the suits in the targets total just those in her total). 

 

 

 

[Artiee]

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