Holes in Ten Thunders

[Erik1978]

I don't get why people think that recalled training equals high weak damage? Against Henchmen & Masters or models with hard to wound or impossible to wound, that recalled training will often end up in weak damage anyway.

Being immune to burning is all well and good but when paralysis is thrown in your face, it doesn't matter much.

[Adran]

17 hours ago, Erik1978 said:

I don't get why people think that recalled training equals high weak damage? Against Henchmen & Masters or models with hard to wound or impossible to wound, that recalled training will often end up in weak damage anyway.

Being immune to burning is all well and good but when paralysis is thrown in your face, it doesn't matter much.

Recalled training does cause a significant increase in your expected damage levels. you are more likely to hit a model, and you are more likely to be on straight flips which will not only increase the odds that your flip isn't weak, but also allow you to cheat (possibly with the card you didn't have to cheat in to hit with because you had that positive flip). 

Sure, there are some targets that it doesn't work against, but that is in some ways the same as high weak damage against Armour still only doing low damage. Most of the models with hard to wound and impossible to wound are on quite a low Df (not all but most) so beating it by 6 is relatively easy unless they spend a very high card, which normally still won't stop you hitting them. 

[Erik1978]

Yeah, for ONE turn. Having the steady 4/5/6 damage all the game is still better IMO. But not a bad upgrade, still a patch for the weaker Enforcers and Henchmen which is also annoying for show of force because we discard that upgrade to become more Arcanist-like.

[newsun]

6 hours ago, Adran said:

Recalled training does cause a significant increase in your expected damage levels. you are more likely to hit a model, and you are more likely to be on straight flips which will not only increase the odds that your flip isn't weak, but also allow you to cheat (possibly with the card you didn't have to cheat in to hit with because you had that positive flip). 

Sure, there are some targets that it doesn't work against, but that is in some ways the same as high weak damage against Armour still only doing low damage. Most of the models with hard to wound and impossible to wound are on quite a low Df (not all but most) so beating it by 6 is relatively easy unless they spend a very high card, which normally still won't stop you hitting them. 

I'd rather melee 7 and min 3 than RT

[santaclaws01]

44 minutes ago, Erik1978 said:

Yeah, for ONE turn. Having the steady 4/5/6 damage all the game is still better IMO. But not a bad upgrade, still a patch for the weaker Enforcers and Henchmen which is also annoying for show of force because we discard that upgrade to become more Arcanist-like.

When you're using RT you should be trading upgrades from your opponent's henchmen and enforcers.

 

20 minutes ago, newsun said:

I'd rather melee 7 and min 3 than RT

So Kang?

[Adran]

On 4/30/2018 at 7:35 PM, newsun said:

How many masters does 10t have who do 3+ min damage on an attack? How many who do this with a 6+ hit stat? How many have a good defensive trigger? How many models have attack start 7+ and min damage 3 how many have min damage 4+?

How many Masters in arcanists? Well 0 with min 3 or higher. So on the base card, that's actually lower than TT who have a minimum 2 with a built in critical strike (McCabe), or a mimimum 2 with a relatively easy to reach trigger for +2 damage (Lynch).

 Arcanists best is minimum 2 with a trigger for built in Burning, and that's on Mei Feng, who is also a Thunder. (Well Ironsides has a minimum 4, but that's on her (2) attack so I don't think its easy to compare or include). 

I'll grant you all 5 other factions have masters with Minimum 3 attacks, and Arcanist can get bonus' with other models/ upgrades but so can thunders. 

 

And yes, I would like my models to all hit as hard as possible all the time, but then we end up with no differences between factions. To have a high damage stat, there needs to be a low stat, otherwise it just becomes the normal damage stat. 

 

[doubledragon]

In 10 Thunders we have:
McCabe who does min 3 on his ml6 (built in crit), which can alternatively ignore Armor, HtW, Incorporeal, HtK.
Lynch and Huggy who both have the potential to do min 4 damage and they come with Illuminated who do a min of 4 damage on their ml when damaging brillianced models.
Kang, who has a ml7 attack with min 3 damage.
Yasunori who has a ml6 attack with min 3 damage.
Izamu who has a ml6 attack with min 3 damage.
Obsidian Statue with a ml6 attack with min 3 damage.
Mr. Graves with a ml6 attack with min 3 damage.
Jorogumo with a ml5 attack with min 3 damage.

The faction has enough choice when it comes to models with min 3 damage, with more access to positives flips on attacks (built in and through upgrades), than any other faction. So why the argument that we need another master with min 3 damage? I play guild in addition to Ten Thunders, for access to masters who do min 3 damage. And that's what those masters do. They do the damage and the crew brings the support .

I play 10 Thunders because I want access to masters who aren't one dimensional. Masters with fun movement and positioning tricks. Masters that offer support and can do damage. Masters that can summon. Masters that allow me access to other factions cool toys. All these things also win games.

If every faction has masters that do the same things, there would be no reason to have different factions. Every faction has weaknesses and every faction has strengths. If the day ever comes where Malifaux goes the way Warmachine went, where every faction had access to all the same kind of tricks and toys, the game will become stale. And then you'll find people asking "Why does faction "X" now have this? That was faction "Y"'s thing!" instead of "Why can't faction "X" have this? Faction "Y" has it!". And in my opinion, some of this has already started to happen.