The New Seamus

[nomoredroids]

15 minutes ago, Frollo the Wordbearer said:

If it's not a problem, I'll try to give my answer to these. 

1- Seamus is opportunist by nature. I don't find A time to activate him. Usually if He's in danger, or needs (or has the opportunity) to destroy a key model or needs to be in position, he'll activate early. If he's in a safe position, can wait some time.

"booh" is great for force the opponent to discard his hand.. And even better to paralyze his model once the hand is empty. 

So.. It depends on the situation, really. 

 

2- doxies are naturally nearer the enemies than belles. And belles and doxies can easily reposition themselves with Lures and Take the Lead. That's not really a problem. Or you can just force the opponent to come at you, instead (a defensive play is great in strategies like Ply or Public  Ex, for example). 

 

3- that happened to me once, too. I suppose he just thrown away a stone or two to prevent damage from Nekima's big sword and found himself out of ss when the black blood (0) came. 

Nekima on a charge can't kill Seamus without BB, as he has the great defence of HtK. So, the ss are usually better spent to prevent the two 1 dmg pulses when he's on a single wound. 

 

IMHO, of course

You're not wrong! I do usually activate him as late as possible in Turn 1 and as early as possible in Turn 2 and 3, but it all depends on the board. That's just the usual for me; I'd much rather drain an opponent's hand early on; if I manage a paralysis or two it's usually because my opponent has garbage (which is dangerous information for an opponent to have) or he clumped up too much. Activating later in the turn means you're going to have more effective Terror flips, but it also means you're going to have a harder time doing what you need to do with the rest of your crew because your opponent has cards to spend.

More specifically, doxies have Take the Lead which is a (0) that allows them to push toward their target before pushing their target in any direction. This not only allows slow models to get up the board faster (they can use it on Yin after she walks twice, for example), it allows them to get up the board faster, too. 

That's exactly what happened. Seamus has Impossible to Wound, and she still never hit Weak. Df 4 against Ml 7 is just crazy hard to deal with. Had I not panicked, I would have realized that 5 + 5 damage still isn't enough to put Seamus on Hard to Kill. The third hit would have put him there, and I would've stoned the Black Blood away. Seamus lives! Instead, I stoned the first hoping to reduce it to 3, but I only reduced it to 4. Reduced the second to 4. Reduced the third to 5 (because she hit Severe), and Black Blood killed me because I was at that point out of stones, like an idiot. 

[McSkip]

Do you field Chiaki with her upgrade?

And how many Doxies and Belles you usually take?

 

[nomoredroids]

6 hours ago, McSkip said:

Do you field Chiaki with her upgrade?

And how many Doxies and Belles you usually take?

 

I prefer MLH to Pull of the Grave. It allows an extra (0) attack with a shot of increasing all her Ca, and generally I use her AP to drop scoring conditions. Late in the turn there's usually not much my opponent can do about it.

My tournament lists always had 2 doxies and 1 Belle. That worked very well.

[Sagrit]

Hmm, you hire 2 Doxies and a Belle? I never can find Stones for them. But definitely will summon. How your core list looks like? Mine usually consists of Yin, Asura/Emissary, Nurse/Chiaki, Necromancy/Bete and sometimes Sybelle, Kentauroi and even Hanged. Now Shikome joins the crew because I really liked her after few tests.

[nomoredroids]

4 hours ago, Sagrit said:

Hmm, you hire 2 Doxies and a Belle? I never can find Stones for them. But definitely will summon. How your core list looks like? Mine usually consists of Yin, Asura/Emissary, Nurse/Chiaki, Necromancy/Bete and sometimes Sybelle, Kentauroi and even Hanged. Now Shikome joins the crew because I really liked her after few tests.

The Doxies will win you games. I made a post about why earlier. Especially when within the WP bubble, as Take the Lead isn't likely to fail. My core list is 30ish Stones and looks something like DYKWIA, Sin Rep, 2x Doxies, a Belle, Yin,  and Copycat. The other 20 are where I get in the other stuff, but they're all pool dependent. Doxies are good at scoring in every pool. Seriously. Every pool. And it just so happens that they trigger WP duels, which makes them especially good with Seamus. I don't run the Kentauroi because while they are amazing models, nothing in my list needs the bump to mobility, I don't have any real trouble dealing damage, and they don't cause WP duels. And they're 8 stones to do things that this crew already does very well. 

[Sagrit]

I got your point. Will try in few days. However I still prefer to hire 1 Doxy and summon the second on first turn with Asura's Zombie. And I don't see how Copycat fits in there. He's a definitely good model and I use him often, but in more classical shooty-Seamus list )))

Trying to find Stones for Emissary to get Carrion Conflux. Should be good with Doxies and Shikome around.

[Frollo the Wordbearer]

CCK is golden. Always. He doesn't need to shoot to kill things, he's a 3 ss model with a istakill trigger (and a huge gun). Imho 

 

[nomoredroids]

3 hours ago, Sagrit said:

I got your point. Will try in few days. However I still prefer to hire 1 Doxy and summon the second on first turn with Asura's Zombie. And I don't see how Copycat fits in there. He's a definitely good model and I use him often, but in more classical shooty-Seamus list )))

Trying to find Stones for Emissary to get Carrion Conflux. Should be good with Doxies and Shikome around.

Yeah, again, I don't usually summon on Turn 1. The CCK fits because it's only 3 stones and it can capitalize on an opponent that has been drained of resources. Boo drains resources. Belles drain resources. In general, good players won't let the CCK destroy one of their good models with the trigger. But it will drain cards or stones. If I have the cards I usually have him teleport to Seamus and charge something big, then cheat in the crows (or magically top deck it). If the opponent isn't out of cards after Boo AND a crow from CCK, they're playing with voodoo. 

[Frollo the Wordbearer]

10 hours ago, nomoredroids said:

The Doxies will win you games. I made a post about why earlier. Especially when within the WP bubble, as Take the Lead isn't likely to fail. My core list is 30ish Stones and looks something like DYKWIA, Sin Rep, 2x Doxies, a Belle, Yin,  and Copycat. The other 20 are where I get in the other stuff, but they're all pool dependent. Doxies are good at scoring in every pool. Seriously. Every pool. And it just so happens that they trigger WP duels, which makes them especially good with Seamus. I don't run the Kentauroi because while they are amazing models, nothing in my list needs the bump to mobility, I don't have any real trouble dealing damage, and they don't cause WP duels. And they're 8 stones to do things that this crew already does very well. 

Mine is usually Asura, the 2 upgrades, CCK, 2 belles. 

On the doxies:

They are good, no one can deny that, but in my opinion they have 2 downsides that rotten belles don't have. 

1-they force only one Wp duel per activation, where belles can force 2.

2-they need 7s, draining your hand as they drain your opponent's. 

IMHO, these two points make them a non-auto-take for me. 

[McSkip]

Yes, we got a Lot of TNs to work with. Seamus back ally, emissary shards, doxie pushes. But remember: you can always focus to get the doxy pushes through

[Hermit]

How do you feel about bringing Madame Sybelle? I've not played Seamus yet but everytime I go against her I feel like she doesn't do enough to justify the cost when she could be Asura or even the Emissary for another stone or 2. Are there any situations where she's worth bringing?

[Fetid Strumpet]

No. She’s an obsolete model for cost in the current environment. Compare her to Phiona, Kentauroi, Asura or any of the other staples at her cost and her effectiveness is approximately that of a 6ss model nowadays. Take her if you like the model and don’t care about winning.

[nomoredroids]

2 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

No. She’s an obsolete model for cost in the current environment. Compare her to Phiona, Kentauroi, Asura or any of the other staples at her cost and her effectiveness is approximately that of a 6ss model nowadays. Take her if you like the model and don’t care about winning.

I really don't think she's a terrible choice. She's Terrifying, which is nice, and her (0) can force other models to attack her or suffer WP duels. This is really her only unique functionality. And in this Seamus list, typically there aren't a ton of cards to let my opponent cheat in, so an 8SS model that forces gimped WP duels to do things isn't terrible. Keeping her back to Shriek is probably the way to yield the best results in this list, but because it's a projectile and Seamus is knee deep in enemy models if he has his way, she's probably going to randomize, and hitting Seamus is the exact opposite of what you want to do. 

I mean, in theory, she's great. In practice, it's hard to get her 8SS-worth. She doesn't have a ton of wounds, so if you do force attacks on her it's likely that she's going to die and die hard. I don't let my 8SS models go quietly, so this use is hard to justify. 

And it's true that other models do the things she does, but I don't think it's necessarily true that she's obsolete, though you're probably right that she's overpriced. She's a nice flexible utility piece if you know how to get her to work for you. In the right situations, My Little Helper at Turn 2 or 3 could make things really ugly for your opponent. 

I think mostly she's going to be underwhelming. And with the right setup and situation she can make things really ugly for one turn. Which is sometimes all you need, but games usually aren't won on "if only."

[Rillan]

I think u underestimate her. While without any upgrades she is not best model in the game but if u give her Bleeding Tongue upgrade she becomes damage magnite and scary beater with ability to one-shot anyone and if opponents discards cards to save model from Sibelle he is out to fight Seamus. 

[Sagrit]

She's a good model with Molly, or Nicodem

[Fetid Strumpet]

No, I don’t underestimate her. I’ve been playing since 1E 2nd book. I was heavily involved in the open testing for 2E and with her in particular. I used her in pretty much every single crew I played every single time I played if she was available for use in for 4 years after the release of 2E. I’ve death striked multiple masters with her. If there is any model in the game I have an absolute handle on its Sybelle and I feel I can definitely say she’s a bad model, now, due to how the game has evolved. She has not aged well and there are other options at her price point and below that do everything she did and better.

The ONLY unique thing she brings is that she is one of only a few models in the game that can deathstrike at will via stones, and she still doesn’t do enough to warrant what you give up in other options to make that worthwhile. 

 

[Pergli]

With Sybelle, I was thinking you give her MLH and that gives her pretty much just one solid turn. The rest of it, meh. You shriek twice so two opponents have to focus her but they can't focus her from further than 3 inches causing them to waste AP or resources. Again, its only one turn you get this off.

 

I really do find the idea of this Seamus as a good alternative for Nico. I love nico but there is so much salt (I don't even run the main nico list) that I need to play other things before my group lynches me.

On Seamus, why would you take AKA vs Unnerving aura? Unnerving seems like it can be powerful for those models who either end up engaged with him or paralyzed. Paralyzed models are pretty much auto wounded with this upgrade or are points better spent elsewhere?

[nomoredroids]

6 minutes ago, Pergli said:

With Sybelle, I was thinking you give her MLH and that gives her pretty much just one solid turn. The rest of it, meh. You shriek twice so two opponents have to focus her but they can't focus her from further than 3 inches causing them to waste AP or resources. Again, its only one turn you get this off.

 

I really do find the idea of this Seamus as a good alternative for Nico. I love nico but there is so much salt (I don't even run the main nico list) that I need to play other things before my group lynches me.

On Seamus, why would you take AKA vs Unnerving aura? Unnerving seems like it can be powerful for those models who either end up engaged with him or paralyzed. Paralyzed models are pretty much auto wounded with this upgrade or are points better spent elsewhere?

If the scheme pool doesn't support the models I can bring in from AKA, then my upgrade is usually Decaying Aura. So I just overlooked it, really. It's a pretty solid option. 

[green-n-dumb]

Hello!
Can you please advice the budget start for Seamus?
Don't have any ressurectionisis models.

[Haagrum]

13 minutes ago, green-n-dumb said:

Hello!
Can you please advice the budget start for Seamus?
Don't have any ressurectionisis models.

The bare bones is probably the Seamus box, Dead Doxies, and whichever of the bigger models you want to add to begin with.

I'd be going with two or more of Carrion Emissary, Asura Roten, Anna Lovelace and Yin.

[McSkip]

I played 3 games now with mixed results:

1: Against Lillith, he had one activation more, Nekima charged Seamus after Boo, 2nd round Seamus Boo again, gets killed by Nekima

2. Against Masterkiller Titania, same Nekima killed Seamus 2nd round first activation

3. Against Pandora,  Seamus lives and boos 3 times (round 1, 2, 3) GAME OVER, Seamus wins

[nomoredroids]

5 hours ago, McSkip said:

I played 3 games now with mixed results:

1: Against Lillith, he had one activation more, Nekima charged Seamus after Boo, 2nd round Seamus Boo again, gets killed by Nekima

2. Against Masterkiller Titania, same Nekima killed Seamus 2nd round first activation

3. Against Pandora,  Seamus lives and boos 3 times (round 1, 2, 3) GAME OVER, Seamus wins

Seamus has to be careful against Nekima. Against any model that can kill him in one activation, really, and especially against chain activations. But this crew has the most trouble against Nekima. I've had the most luck with Nekima by putting Yin's Gnawing Fear on her and then using Take the Lead to get her outside of 3" of Seamus. This means you have to be certain not to allow her to get close enough to Seamus to activate and take 3 swings. Even just forcing her to walk once will reduce her potential to murder Seamus. 

[McSkip]

Nekima was his last activation, outside of Yins range. But definitly something to consider for the 2nd turn. Activating Yin first to dissable the most dangerous modell the enemy crew has (because of negativ flips for the terror duell against Seamus). Yin would have saved my bacon in the first game, but I didnt include him that time but I consider him now as Seamus live saver!

[Arlos896]

Has anyone tried corpse bloat with Seamus? In theory if they pass boo, clump them up around a corpse then detonate it another effective wp15 duel or 5 damage either leads to lots of damage or lots of healing.

[Adran]

I've done corpse bloat on Seamus, but not since broken promises. Its pretty good fun, Seamus can normally afford to rip his own spleen out because he ought to heal, and with the new stuff  I think it gets even better. Down side might be that they both utilise (0) actions for their set up, so you end up having to only use 1 a turn or come up with another way to get corpses out.