Von Schill starter

[never born again]

I've been a Neverborn player for the past year and recently decided to dump my tax return into Outcasts. I have been using Hannah in my Lillith crew (to fantastic effect) and thought I would just double down on the Freikorps and buy in to Von Schill. I know the Trapper is widely regarded as one of the best snipers in the game even after his recent nerf but I also just really like his crew. The specialist ignores cover and dishes out burning, the librarian can heal and throw out some damage if she pleases, the steam trunk, well, that's just great flavor. I also picked up the strong arm which... seems too expensive for what he does in my opinion. ANYWAY. What other models/crews do folks recommend I pick up? Also I only have his base upgrades so what generic upgrades should I get? Not looking to be top tier competitive or anything but casual competitive I guess? IDK. Ideas, thoughts, and opinions appreciated.

 

[WWHSD]

2 hours ago, never born again said:

I also picked up the strong arm which... seems too expensive for what he does in my opinion. 

Augmented Jump on the Strong Arm Suit is pretty sweet. Normally a big beater can get tied up with cheap models which forces you to spend AP freeing them up to go after your opponent’s important models. Augmented Jump keeps him from getting tied up.

Hire him with “The Bigger They Are” and he’s charging wherever he wants to charge to throw 4/6/8 damage track attacks at anything with an upgrade equipped. Have Von Schill toss Oathkeeper on the Strong Arm Suit to either get fast or to get bonuses against anything Von Schill damages.

[WWHSD]

I don't play Outcasts but Sue and the Midnight Stalker are two models that I'd definitely want as options no matter which master I was running. Midnight Stalker might be the best scheme runner Outcasts have available. Sue can really screw with models with Ca actions, gives you some card draw, and can put out some decent damage (the Sh5 is a bit low but it gets a  flip and is essentially 3/4/5 12 inch ranged attack). 

[Zebo]

Really, there's only two Freikorps models you don't own, Lazarus and Anna Lovelace (why the sister of Hannah is called for both first and last name? Don should Hannah be called also Hannah Lovelace?) 

I've found that Lazarus is generally is the least loved 10ss Freikorps model for the Freikorps players, but with the book 5 he could be used with new buffs, like armor +5, obscured and the placements from VS compensating his low wk. 

Still not played Anna, can't speak about her. 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Strongarm suit is pretty good - (0)AP to boost his ml damage, +2Sh or 1 damage to melee attackers?  And augmented jump, armor 2, hard to kill in Schill's aura.....

Lazarus and Hannah are also fun models that work with Schill.  Otherwise, Convict gunslingers are good 7SS shooters, or even desperate mercenaries are interesting at 3SS. 

What you lack are fast scheme runners though.  Outcasts don't have much in the way of that sort of thing.  Winged plague perhaps, unless you eventually want to get Tara then you have void wretches.

 

If you like snipers, Hans is an interesting alternative - and if you look at his card, bear in mind he has a 0SS upgrade to give him a 0SS focus - he's dropped down to 7SS.  

 

Also, do you have his wave 5 upgrades?

 

If you don't, get them.  Step away from the computer, go and buy them.  Right now.  

 

Aside from that, you NEED Oathkeeper (especially with his wave 5 upgrades).  Survivalist is a good general upgrade for him, scramble is good for his crew (especially with the slow-ass specialist).  Return fire is a good one too, on your shooty models.

[CapnBloodbeard]

2 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Really, there's only two Freikorps models you don't own, Lazarus and Anna Lovelace (why the sister of Hannah is called for both first and last name? Don should Hannah be called also Hannah Lovelace?) 

I've found that Lazarus is generally is the least loved 10ss Freikorps model for the Freikorps players, but with the book 5 he could be used with new buffs, like armor +5, obscured and the placements from VS compensating his low wk. 

Still not played Anna, can't speak about her. 

Armor 5? what's this?

Placements from Schill would need Schill to waste an AP hitting Lazarus..

I think Lazarus is awesome.  Blasts, fair damage output, a 0AP heal, Armor 2, and his autocannon is just brilliant.  Lazarus has a lot of love on here - I usually pick him over Hannah.

[Jesy Blue]

If you are going to take Lazarus, look into his best friend Vanessa with her 0 action construct "Obey". It's hilarious.

The Emissary upgrade for Von Schill is both good and bad.  Adding The Shirt Comes off first turn on top of the three upgrades you already have on Von Schill is kind of cool, but he's so mobile and the Emissary is so not mobile that you will only every get to do it once unless you're really lucky.  However, if you're doing a shooting crew, staying withing range of the Emissary prevents randomized when shooting into melee, so you could stand still and when the enemy comes to you, anyone not engaged could still shoot into the engaged enemy.  Either way you're going to be wasting an aspect of the Upgrade.

I will also echo the sentiment to get the two wave 5 upgrades for Von Schill and "staple" them on him because you'll always use them.  One crazy, but I find useful, tactic I use is on the first turn you can add all 3 Oath Keeper upgrades to Von Schill himself, then he has 4 AP for turns 2-4, which, how I work him, gives him 2 leaping charges per turn.  That is the deceptive mobility of Von Schill.

[Davos]

The Wave 5 upgrades for VS are your single largest priority to get.  Honestly, without them, he's not worth it.  I'm partial to using Nythera Aftermath along side Anna to push things, plus strongarm suit, along with the Effigy, an armymann, and the trunk. Librarians are also nice.  Hans I think has replaced the trapper, since he has more overall threat (Range 36 is nice)

[Zebo]

9 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Armor 5? what's this?

The 0 action from Engineer targets models with armor +1 OR constructs, so constructs can be targeted even with armor +2 or high. 

 

It could be used over Lazarus for 2 engineers and Hannah. 

 

IMHO is too resources for only Lazarus, but it's factible. 

[WWHSD]

Dang, it almost seems like the Freikorps Engineers make a better Freikorpsmann than the Freikorpsmann do.

 

[Davos]

The card draw is rather nice

[Zebo]

19 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Dang, it almost seems like the Freikorps Engineers make a better Freikorpsmann than the Freikorpsmann do.

 

In fact, the Engineers make Freikorpsmann better. 

The models that benefit the most from the Engineer's 0 action are those with interesting  Triggers, since everyone benefits from +1 armor and Obscured. 

Those are Von Schill, Freikorpsmann, Specialist and Trapper. 

 

Sincerely, make a 5ss model have armor +2 (with his df 5), and +1 damage from both ranged and in melee (+2 damage if the Freikorpsmann discards a ) is quite a big thing, but the great problem with the Freikorpsmann has always been that they can do very good things, but are so recourse intensive that normaly a good turn with a Freikorpsmann empties your hand. 

[Davos]

5 minutes ago, Zebo said:

In fact, the Engineers make Freikorpsmann better. 

The models that benefit the most from the Engineer's 0 action are those with interesting  Triggers, since everyone benefits from +1 armor and Obscured. 

Those are Von Schill, Freikorpsmann, Specialist and Trapper. 

 

Sincerely, make a 5ss model have armor +2 (with his df 5), and +1 damage from both ranged and in melee (+2 damage if the Freikorpsmann discards a ) is quite a big thing, but the great problem with the Freikorpsmann has always been that they can do very good things, but are so recourse intensive that normaly a good turn with a Freikorpsmann empties your hand. 

I agree, while its super cute to make the Freikorpsmann min 4 (+Ram, Reference the field guide, and a Ram on the attack) it gets so card intensive its just not worth it.  I've found that the Obscured condition is more useful on VS or Specialist (if for some reason you're bringing him) since it keeps them alive even more so.  The Ram is nice for damage, but I find the survivability is the true strength of it.  Admittedly though, I'm not a fan of the model sculpt and am planning on using some The OTher Side models as proxies

[WWHSD]

47 minutes ago, Zebo said:

In fact, the Engineers make Freikorpsmann better. 

The models that benefit the most from the Engineer's 0 action are those with interesting  Triggers, since everyone benefits from +1 armor and Obscured. 

Those are Von Schill, Freikorpsmann, Specialist and Trapper. 

 

Sincerely, make a 5ss model have armor +2 (with his df 5), and +1 damage from both ranged and in melee (+2 damage if the Freikorpsmann discards a ) is quite a big thing, but the great problem with the Freikorpsmann has always been that they can do very good things, but are so recourse intensive that normaly a good turn with a Freikorpsmann empties your hand. 

It looks like Hannah is the only Outcast Freikorps model that can be targeted by this action that doesn't have a trigger that benefits from Powerful. The Engineer himself has triggers that can benefit from the added .  If you have a pair of Engineers Strengthen Armor on each other, you only need to cheat in a  for the first time one of them uses the action. I'm not sure if that's the best use of a pair of Engineers but it gives you a pair of 3/4/6 (4/5/7 if the card used in the duel is a ) guns that draw cards whenever they activate as long as you've done a little prep work.  There's no reason that a single Engineer can't just buff himself if there's nothing better around to buff. He just won't benefit from a  added to his zero action flip.

The Friekorpsmann has the edge with the melee attack but the Engineer starts of with a better damage track on his ranged attack which makes almost makes Reference the Field Guide a wash. The Freikorpsmann only does more damage with Powerful+Field Guide than the Engineer does with just Powerful if you are hitting the Severe damage. 

[Zebo]

3 hours ago, WWHSD said:

It looks like Hannah is the only Outcast Freikorps model that can be targeted by this action that doesn't have a trigger that benefits from Powerful.

Also the Librarian and Anna Lovelace don't use rams. And Lazarus only uses them in close combat, where you don't want him to be. 

[WWHSD]

4 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Also the Librarian and Anna Lovelace don't use rams. And Lazarus only uses them in close combat, where you don't want him to be. 

I missed the Librarian. Anna isn't an Outcast.

[CapnBloodbeard]

12 hours ago, Zebo said:

The 0 action from Engineer targets models with armor +1 OR constructs, so constructs can be targeted even with armor +2 or high. 

 

It could be used over Lazarus for 2 engineers and Hannah. 

 

IMHO is too resources for only Lazarus, but it's factible. 

Yeah so....where are you getting Armor 5 from? 

Armour 2 built in, each engineer can add Armour 1....

Heh, he could tarpit the Viks at Armour 5......

[Raimu]

2 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Yeah so....where are you getting Armor 5 from? 

Armour 2 built in, each engineer can add Armour 1....

Heh, he could tarpit the Viks at Armour 5......

As he has written: two engineers and Hannah

[Adran]

3 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Yeah so....where are you getting Armor 5 from? 

Armour 2 built in, each engineer can add Armour 1....

Heh, he could tarpit the Viks at Armour 5......

Only if they don't take a mark of Shezuul...

[Davos]

I thought the wording on the Enginner's Armor ability prevented it from being used on any model with greater than Armor + 1

[gribble]

24 minutes ago, Davos said:

I thought the wording on the Enginner's Armor ability prevented it from being used on any model with greater than Armor + 1

Target Construct or model with Armor +1.

[Davos]

34 minutes ago, gribble said:

Target Construct or model with Armor +1.

Ahhh, I guess I just assumed the Armor +1 restriction clause applied to all models.  Welp.

 

I suppose that creates some interesting interactions with big beefy models like Peacekeeper...giving him Obscured would be pretty nice, even if it means discarding acard to do so

[gribble]

11 minutes ago, Davos said:

Ahhh, I guess I just assumed the Armor +1 restriction clause applied to all models.  Welp.

I can understand the confusion. Prior to reading this thread and checking the model stats, I thought the same.

[CapnBloodbeard]

On 26/02/2018 at 10:00 PM, Jesy Blue said:

 

I will also echo the sentiment to get the two wave 5 upgrades for Von Schill and "staple" them on him because you'll always use them.  One crazy, but I find useful, tactic I use is on the first turn you can add all 3 Oath Keeper upgrades to Von Schill himself, then he has 4 AP for turns 2-4, which, how I work him, gives him 2 leaping charges per turn.  That is the deceptive mobility of Von Schill.

I've been spending all 3AP on turn one handing 1 to himself, and 2 more to other models - usually librarian and lazarus/strongarm/hannah (whichever Friekorps beater I'm playing).  Librarian because furious casting at   can be pretty nasty.  

But I've been thinking more that perhaps it could also be effective handing it out to scheme runners - eg helping a Friekorpsmann leg it up to the corner to drop a scheme marker, that sort of thing.  Or to somebody who is in position for a scheme marker to get them to drop 2 in a turn.  

Not needing an TN to hit makes handing out oathkeeper a pretty powerful ability and there are probably a number of ways to use it other than playing into his new upgrades.  But I was also thinking about your idea a bit too.  

I mean, doing that, it's theoretically possible for vS to get 10 attacks in a turn, with a lot of ,  and move up to 31"............

[Freman]

Don't forget that the positive flips benefit any model with Oathkeeper, not just Freikorps.

Hire a model with Oathkeeper and they'll also be getting positive flips against models damaged by Von Schill until such time as they drop it, and then Von Schill can slap it on another Freikorps model.