Baskakov_Dmitriy Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 I have thought about a weird, but likely common situation when Arcane Emissary is in the field to help Raspi. Arcane Emissary has the Elemental Conflux upgrade. Ice Mirror and Shattered Mirror abilities both say "When taking a Ca Action, this model may draw LoS and range from a friendly model with Frozen Heart within 10" and LoS that is not engaged". So, Arcane Emissary engages a couple of enemies, but it is still possible to shoot through him via both, because, according to the "Node" ability given by the Emissary's upgrade, "Masters never consider this model to be engaged for the purposes of their Abilities". Of course, Arcane Emissary is an Enforcer, a model that is supposed to hit hard, and that is supposed to engage models. But Rasputina's main attacks, Freeze Over and December's Curse, are Projectile Attacks, and hence randomize their target when shooting into engagement. And normally Rasputina could occasionally hit her friendly Emissary. On the other hand, at that moment Rasputina is using her Ability (one of the Mirrors) to take an action through the Arcane Emissary, and, according to Emissary's upgrade, it is not considered engaged for that purpose. So, does Rasputina need to randomize the target or not? If yes, this sounds very weird to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuMantai Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 That depends on the target. You can channel through the Emissary, even if it is engaged, but if you target a model that is engaged, you still have to randomize as normal (even when the target is engaged by the Emissary). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baskakov_Dmitriy Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, MuMantai said: That depends on the target. You can channel through the Emissary, even if it is engaged, but if you target a model that is engaged, you still have to randomize as normal (even when the target is engaged by the Emissary). So I can still hit the Emissary that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuMantai Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Baskakov_Dmitriy said: So I can still hit the Emissary that way? Yes, you can. You are still aiming a action into an engagement. All "Node" does is letting you channel through the Emissary when he is engaged. All other rules regarding the actions still apply. That has some strange inteactions when you channel through him into the engagement he is part of, but it is still resolved the way it would otherwise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 On a similar note, if Raspy targets the Emissary with a would it not randomize and just hit it? Could be good tech with Freeze Over for unresistable Paralyze. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 hours ago, MuMantai said: Yes, you can. You are still aiming a action into an engagement. All "Node" does is letting you channel through the Emissary when he is engaged. All other rules regarding the actions still apply. That has some strange inteactions when you channel through him into the engagement he is part of, but it is still resolved the way it would otherwise. Barring abilities that say otherwise, the only model that isn't included in randomization is the model making the attack. Rasputina is still the model making the attack when she uses one of her Mirror abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffaluffacus Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Oh look, another reason why the Arcane emissary is almost good enough in a fringe moment, but then not at all when it comes down to the details. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 32 minutes ago, Fluffaluffacus said: Oh look, another reason why the Arcane emissary is almost good enough in a fringe moment, but then not at all when it comes down to the details. I really want the Flaming Mechanical Bull to be awesome. It makes me kind of sad to see how awesome the Carrion Emissary is in comparison. Maybe we can get the soul stone discount that the other factions got for their Riders for our Emissary. WTF is up with Ramos's Conflux? The model that looks like a Construct get that keyword and Magnetism. That's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffaluffacus Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, WWHSD said: I really want the Flaming Mechanical Bull to be awesome. It makes me kind of sad to see how awesome the Carrion Emissary is in comparison. Maybe we can get the soul stone discount that the other factions got for their Riders for our Emissary. WTF is up with Ramos's Conflux? The model that looks like a Construct get that keyword and Magnetism. That's it. I have found only 3 conflux semi worth bringing the emissary for. Kaeris. Ironsides. MAYBE raspy. But now figuring this out, it makes it even less likely to bring it. I think the problem is... He wants to be with him team, giving out Flesh and metal and his conflux abilites. BUT he wants to charge in. His conflux 0's usually aren't worth it, compared to negation. His elemental rage is basically a worse Oxfordian mage attack. Relentless charge is neat but can only be used with his charge. Its hard to get him anywhere because he is a 50mm with walk 4. His elemental burst on his charge is neat, but unless you're going against rezzers it usually doesn't do much. In Kaeris he has to activate first to give her instinctual, but he is your beater so don't really want to be forced to activate him early. He needs unimpeded or something, minimally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuMantai Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 15 hours ago, retnab said: On a similar note, if Raspy targets the Emissary with a would it not randomize and just hit it? Could be good tech with Freeze Over for unresistable Paralyze. If the Emissary is engaged, she would still randomize. I see no evidence to the contrary. As to the Emissary, I like him. Yes, we have no confluxes that really scream "take me", but I have played him quite a lot with Sandeep, with Imbued Energies. 16" thread range are fun In my view, he has a similar role to the Captain. He is a backline model that is reasonably tanky, can move other models around and deals quite ok damage. The Elemental Rage attack may not do incredibal damage, but it is ok, and with range 6 with no projectile, it is quite flexible, and it has some great triggers. Also, he can do reliable 6 damage in an activation, 8 on a charge, which is not bad for his price range. I wouldn't argue he can make any list, he lacks some important synergies for that (construct for Ramos and Mei, M&SU for Toni), but he is playable, and I would argue he is not a bad pick in a lot of situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 7 hours ago, MuMantai said: If the Emissary is engaged, she would still randomize. I see no evidence to the contrary. Read the Node ability on the Elemental Conflux card: "Node: Friendly Masters never consider this model to be engaged for the purposes of their Abilities." When Rasputina targets the Emissary with one of her abilities he is not considered to be engaged so she would not have to randomize. If she targets a model engaged with the Emissary she'd still need to randomize since Node doesn't allow her to ignore the Engaged state of that target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 On re-reading, I think it actually would still randomize since the Engagement is only ignored for Abilities (Ice Mirror), not Actions (Freeze Over). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, WWHSD said: Read the Node ability on the Elemental Conflux card: "Node: Friendly Masters never consider this model to be engaged for the purposes of their Abilities." When Rasputina targets the Emissary with one of her abilities he is not considered to be engaged so she would not have to randomize. If she targets a model engaged with the Emissary she'd still need to randomize since Node doesn't allow her to ignore the Engaged state of that target. For the specific purpose of the ability it isn't considered engaged. For the actual base book rules on targeting into an engagement with a projectile you haven't been given an exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, retnab said: On re-reading, I think it actually would still randomize since the Engagement is only ignored for Abilities (Ice Mirror), not Actions (Freeze Over). I was thinking that Actions were a subset of Abilities. It appears that I was getting Abilities confused with Talents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaphoricDragn Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 I think the goal is here not to target the engaging model, but rather the scenario of the opponent engaging your mirror so that you cannot target their squishies. With that in mind, Node is useful. Sure you can engage me, but I can still mirror off the emissary and blast your back line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.