AlfaSonia

[Atoli]

ok so I spoted this on chatter and i didnt see this in our forum.

Idea of blasting Sonia with 4 AP, + flip for dmg in "second" activation in first turn and if im not wrong 10" from starting line. Is it something that can be playable?

what we need:

student of conflict

papa loco

grimwel

investigator

sonia with Cherufes parting gift

 

Activations:

1. student gives fast to sonia

companion on papa, hold this to sonia, place marker, push from investigator on sonia, walk

2. grimwel nimble forward, place marker for push for sonia, and his push on sonia 

sonia  activates from cherufes up about 10" from starting point has 4ap and + to dmg

   

[Ludvig]

Thank you for this. Also noticed the chat just now.

 

It seems very potent. Even on a board with decent coverage of terrain you can usually get a few sight lines if you reach the center line. This also assumes that you only use one investigator, pretty sure you could stack those up for even more movement.

[WWHSD]

I’d need to put in on the table and measure it out but I think you might have trouble with the second push from the Investigator. Grimwell is going to need to drop a scheme marker that is within 4 inches of the Investigator and within 3 inches of Sonnia and have that marker be more than 4 inches away from the marker that Papa dropped. Papa’s marker had to within 4 inches of the Investigator and 3 inches of Sonnia’s starting location.

[Ludvig]

If you could spare another activation you could do the investigator removing markers trick which should let you place again? The opponent will likely have trouble countering even if it's your third activation.

Well I guess we know who will get hit in the summer errata.

[WWHSD]

3 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

If you could spare another activation you could do the investigator removing markers trick which should let you place again? The opponent will likely have trouble countering even if it's your third activation.

Well I guess we know who will get hit in the summer errata.

You could always bring a second Investigator and make sure that Sonnia doesn't push more than 3 inches away from the the scheme marker on the first push (which should be fairly easy). 

You're now up to 28 points invested to pull of the trick though. 

 

[Ludvig]

3 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

You could always bring a second Investigator and make sure that Sonnia doesn't push more than 3 inches away from the the scheme marker on the first push (which should be fairly easy). 

You're now up to 28 points invested to pull of the trick though. 

 

Well Franc and investigators aren't exactly useless after that first turn and Sonnia should take out a pretty decent chunk of enemy soulstones. Especially if you consider that she might also get first activation and blast three more times turn 2.

[Ludvig]

Posted by Duncan on AWP. It will be relevant to this discussion I think. 

50 SS Guild Crew
Sonnia Criid + 5 Pool
 - Cherufe's Imprint (1)
 - Counterspell Aura (1)
 - Cherufes Parting Gift (1)
Malifaux Child (3)
Dr. Grimwell (9)
 - Expert Sleuth (1)
Francisco Ortega (8)
 - Wade In (1)
 - Hermanos de Armas (1)
Papa Loco (7)
 - Numb To The World (1)
Guild Investigator (6)
Watcher (4)
Brutal Effigy (4)

[Atoli]

35 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I’d need to put in on the table and measure it out but I think you might have trouble with the second push from the Investigator. Grimwell is going to need to drop a scheme marker that is within 4 inches of the Investigator and within 3 inches of Sonnia and have that marker be more than 4 inches away from the marker that Papa dropped. Papa’s marker had to within 4 inches of the Investigator and 3 inches of Sonnia’s starting location.

i think its doable,

1. papa is on the left side from sonia 2" from her, and he puts marker 4" from inv (he is od the right her side) and 3" from sonia, she can push forward

2. grimwel (thats on the ride side of Investigator) goes forward lets say about 5", places marker which is 4" from investigator in straight line so its for sure more than 4" from another marker, and sonie should be in 3" from marker

in this 28SS im only not sure of grimwell because im not sure he is worth his points, his plus is that he is witch hunter and tha gives opportunity to attack with sonia in "second" activation frame

 

[WWHSD]

30 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Well Franc and investigators aren't exactly useless after that first turn and Sonnia should take out a pretty decent chunk of enemy soulstones. Especially if you consider that she might also get first activation and blast three more times turn 2.

She needs to drop a bunch of stuff since she'll be standing by herself in the middle of the board with half of her crew activated before what might be the second activation her opponent gets. With Ca9,  to damage, and possibly  to attack, I can't see much not being dead. You can't even really spread out to avoid the blasts due to her Pyrokinesis. 

[Atoli]

25 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Posted by Duncan on AWP. It will be relevant to this discussion I think. 

50 SS Guild Crew
Sonnia Criid + 5 Pool
 - Cherufe's Imprint (1)
 - Counterspell Aura (1)
 - Cherufes Parting Gift (1)
Malifaux Child (3)
Dr. Grimwell (9)
 - Expert Sleuth (1)
Francisco Ortega (8)
 - Wade In (1)
 - Hermanos de Armas (1)
Papa Loco (7)
 - Numb To The World (1)
Guild Investigator (6)
Watcher (4)
Brutal Effigy (4)

yeah a see his point minus -1 AP but gives an opportunity to take same cards from effigys buff or take a buff from frank

 

[Ludvig]

7 hours ago, Atoli said:

 

in this 28SS im only not sure of grimwell because im not sure he is worth his points, his plus is that he is witch hunter and tha gives opportunity to attack with sonia in "second" activation frame

 

I would say Grimwell is a lynchpin in this list. You want him to push her the last bit so that you are allowed to chain into her. If you push her that far up you don't want an enemy walking in to ignore her before she blasts.

[McSkip]

Sorry for offtopic regarding the list and alpha strike thingys.

How do you play sonnia in the first activation? Shoting with or without focus? Using SS for tomes to get burning?

[WWHSD]

That’s just crazy. I have no idea how to not get completely blown up by that. With Ca9 she’s still likely to hit even on negative flips. The + to damage means she almost always going to be able to cheat in blasts. Even if the one activation Sonnia’s opponent gets is Mei Feng venting steam three times she’s still likely to hit unles he target gets lucky flipping cards or has a fantastic hand.

[Ludvig]

41 minutes ago, McSkip said:

Sorry for offtopic regarding the list and alpha strike thingys.

How do you play sonnia in the first activation? Shoting with or without focus? Using SS for tomes to get burning?

Loco rather than focus is the most popular way. I only stone for burning if I know that I want to shoot a model that's in cover or I can't see but that I will have reach to if it starts to burn.

[Ludvig]

42 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

That’s just crazy. I have no idea how to not get completely blown up by that. With Ca9 she’s still likely to hit even on negative flips. The + to damage means she almost always going to be able to cheat in blasts. Even if the one activation Sonnia’s opponent gets is Mei Feng venting steam three times she’s still likely to hit unles he target gets lucky flipping cards or has a fantastic hand.

Armoured models can weather Sonnia decently but I would say a counter-alpha that can reach her activation two or an insanely spread out crew with terrain so they don't see each other might work. But there was a reason Duncan won three Novas (?) in a row without ever changing his list. Even top tournament players who basically knew his exact list couldn't counter it. There was no Yaz back then, among other things, though.

As I said, I feel an errata coming this summer. 

[Atoli]

24 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Armoured models can weather Sonnia decently but I would say a counter-alpha that can reach her activation two or an insanely spread out crew with terrain so they don't see each other might work. But there was a reason Duncan won three Novas (?) in a row without ever changing his list. Even top tournament players who basically knew his exact list couldn't counter it. There was no Yaz back then, among other things, though.

As I said, I feel an errata coming this summer. 

And what do you think this errata change? Sonia's up?

[Ludvig]

4 minutes ago, Atoli said:

And what do you think this errata change? Sonia's up?

Aaron watching Duncan play Sonnia last time lead to removal ofthe Papabox so I wouldn't call it impossible.

[Atoli]

1 minute ago, Ludvig said:

Aaron watching Duncan play Sonnia last time lead to removal ofthe Papabox so I wouldn't call it impossible.

Duncan won event using his list? 

[Ludvig]

2 minutes ago, Atoli said:

Duncan won event using his list? 

Not this one. He won three tournies in a row with a Papabox list before the nerf.

[im_open_to_suggestions]

i delved into Sonia this Tuesday and had oodles of fun.

key pieces were nurse heartsbane, death marshal and the brutal emissary.  Pine box Sonia, convulse the brutal emissary twice to push him 12 inches up the board and then let him use sonias attack from an unexpected angle.

 

[Ludvig]

1 minute ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

i delved into Sonia this Tuesday and had oodles of fun.

key pieces were nurse heartsbane, death marshal and the brutal emissary.  Pine box Sonia, convulse the brutal emissary twice to push him 12 inches up the board and then let him use sonias attack from an unexpected angle.

 

You need luck to get the crows for your hand. How did you get range to convulse the emissary twice? Did you also luck out with an 8+ mask?

[Atoli]

6 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Not this one. He won three tournies in a row with a Papabox list before the nerf.

ok so until he wins with this list a major event im hoping Aaron will don't care about this topic

[Tris]

What do you deem so problematic in this list that it would warrant a nerf?

What's the compnent you would want to nerf?

Just curious as there's no "creative rules interpretation or whatsoever involved, like Papa Box was likely a relic from the 1st book where we didn't know better, but what's it this time?

Don't let her get fast?

Make her stationary?

Errata her attack/confiscated lore?

 

What about counterplay?

It seems like you guys believe it's the best alpha in the game?^^

[WWHSD]

11 minutes ago, Tris said:

What about counterplay?

I think that lack of counter play is the problem with it. It can happen before the opponent gets a second activation (or held until later in the turn if needed). It has the potential to damage models almost 6 inches away from the initial target. If a hiding model gets caught by a blast in the first attack  it can potentially be directly targeted by the next three attacks. The Ca value is so high that the attacks are almost always going to hit if both sides are top decking the duel and combined with the  to damage Sonnia will almost always be able to cheat the damage flip to ensure blasts on each attack. 

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like the counterplay options amount to bringing the right tech to minimize the damage from Sonnia's attacks or keeping 6 inches between each of your models until you are in a position to take Sonnia down. It may turn out to be something that's much better on paper than it is on the table, I hope that's the case. 

There's no one piece of this thing that's broken. There are a ton of effects out that there that are "non-leader". Maybe some of the ones used in this list need that restriction added. 

[4thstringer]

2 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I think that lack of counter play is the problem with it. It can happen before the opponent gets a second activation (or held until later in the turn if needed). It has the potential to damage models almost 6 inches away from the initial target. If a hiding model gets caught by a blast in the first attack  it can potentially be directly targeted by the next three attacks. The Ca value is so high that the attacks are almost always going to hit if both sides are top decking the duel and combined with the  to damage Sonnia will almost always be able to cheat the damage flip to ensure blasts on each attack. 

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like the counterplay options amount to bringing the right tech to minimize the damage from Sonnia's attacks or keeping 6 inches between each of your models until you are in a position to take Sonnia down. It may turn out to be something that's much better on paper than it is on the table, I hope that's the case. 

There's no one piece of this thing that's broken. There are a ton of effects out that there that are "non-leader". Maybe some of the ones used in this list need that restriction added. 

I feel like the counterplay is models that can punish sonnia for being that far up second activation, while not being so close to each other.  But when I sent this thread to my casual group they all responded "sounds npe" so I probably won't run it.