Philip and the Nanny

[Skylifter-1000]

I don't get this guy. At 8 stones, I feel he's way too squishy, even with HtW and Manipulative. I also don't see how that card cycling machine works that is sometimes mentioned. Can anyone enlighten me as to what this guy is actually good for and how he works?

[Fetid Strumpet]

Have a model that can drop 2 scheme markers a turn near him. Drop 2 scheme markers. Eat them with Philip to draw 4 cards and discard 2. Repeat every turn until Philip and your scheme runners are needed elsewhere. Use them to win late scoring schemes. Profit.

 

[Skylifter-1000]

3 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Have a model that can drop 2 scheme markers a turn near him. Drop 2 scheme markers. Eat them with Philip to draw 4 cards and discard 2. Repeat every turn until Philip and your scheme runners are needed elsewhere. Use them to win late scoring schemes. Profit.

 

Okay, that does sound good, but that's like 13 stones (assuming a Necropunk for the other model). Is that really worth 2 good cards?

[Fetid Strumpet]

Yes and no. It really depends on what your build is. The biggest difficulty with it is that Ressers best models are their support models and it’s easy to go overboard and take too much support. 

The thing to remember is this is just what it does most of the time. But Philip is very fast, especially when Doxies or Angelica, or any other model that can move your models around is nearby. So he can get where he needs to go. He can outfight or screw up pretty badly any low SS cost scheme runners or the markers they leave behind, and can get places very very fast if you need him for undercover entourage. I don’t agree with the massive hype around him outside certain builds, and frankly it’s more that those options have just too much outside card draw that causes the issue in my opinion. But he can be a good model if that’s what you want your support to be. 

[PirateCaptain]

15 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Yes and no. It really depends on what your build is. The biggest difficulty with it is that Ressers best models are their support models and it’s easy to go overboard and take too much support. 

The thing to remember is this is just what it does most of the time. But Philip is very fast, especially when Doxies or Angelica, or any other model that can move your models around is nearby. So he can get where he needs to go. He can outfight or screw up pretty badly any low SS cost scheme runners or the markers they leave behind, and can get places very very fast if you need him for undercover entourage. I don’t agree with the massive hype around him outside certain builds, and frankly it’s more that those options have just too much outside card draw that causes the issue in my opinion. But he can be a good model if that’s what you want your support to be. 

Pretty much all of this, it's easy to confuse the hype for a bandwagon of Phillip in every crew, but he's just another really good support piece.  Choosing the correct support is really important in Rezzers, and like you said, overdoing it can cause huge problems in crews

[Ludvig]

For a summoner who lives and dies by the high cards it can be a gamechanger. It can be the difference between two hanged or two canine remains summoned each turn. A doxy and Philip will mill cards while also moving up the board to score points.

[mojopin]

I took him in OURS last tournament because he could sit in his quarter and claim it while eating markers. Other than that I dont use his card drawing engine because its left behind most times static in your Deployment zone. Its of course a personal taste but other than playing ours or expecting a heavy enemy scheme markers dropping schemes I would invest in other models. 

[Ludvig]

22 minutes ago, mojopin said:

I took him in OURS last tournament because he could sit in his quarter and claim it while eating markers. Other than that I dont use his card drawing engine because its left behind most times static in your Deployment zone. Its of course a personal taste but other than playing ours or expecting a heavy enemy scheme markers dropping schemes I would invest in other models. 

A doxy can move Philip 8 inches and move itself while also dropping the two markers he wants to snack on so he doesn't need to stay very far behind.

[Paddywhack]

46 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

A doxy can move Philip 8 inches and move itself while also dropping the two markers he wants to snack on so he doesn't need to stay very far behind.

How does a Doxy drop two markers in one turn? Or do you just mean in general over the turns? 

[Ludvig]

4 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

How does a Doxy drop two markers in one turn? Or do you just mean in general over the turns? 

They have a (0) to push their walk towards the target and then push the target its walk in any direction. So the doxy starts her walk away from Phil on the line of the deploy. Drops a marker towards where Phil is going, then does her (0) so she ends up near Phil and he goes 8" forward and slightly centered between the old marker and the one she is about to drop. She then drops the final marker with her last ap. Philips base and the markers makes it able to push the full 8" and still have reach to both of them for the card draw. The next turn she can only drop one marker if she wants to push him forward or do a similar thing and push towards another model if you want her to drop twice and get a bit up the board.

[Paddywhack]

Ah. I always forget about their push towards the target. Haven't taken them recently. 

[Clement]

Every time i think about the dead doxy/phillip scheme marker combo my head explodes with the gross trig of figuring out how far away she needs to be and how far up Phillip can push and still be in range...

Then I remember her "push towards the target" is a push up to distance and that I'm hilariously overthinking the problem.

[Skylifter-1000]

Damn, I've been playing Doxies as some of my first ever Malifaux models, and I never realized their target could be pushed in ANY direction. I always just used it to push their target towards them to get their pounce attack.

This game just never let's one stop learning. 

 

[Ludvig]

My good mate and the filthies resser I've ever met who always beat me into a pulp practically stopped starting rotten belles in his crews in favour of doxies. He only took the rotters when he really went thematic with Seamus and had mostly belles in the list.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I don’t really like doxies. Needing a 7 to make take the lead work in addition to all the other cards needed when playing Seamus sees me leaving them at home mostly. Too many required TNs make using all the abilities tricky. Belles can slow models as well, fairly well inside Seamus’ aura so they’re still the go to with him in my opinion.

[Ludvig]

7 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

I don’t really like doxies. Needing a 7 to make take the lead work in addition to all the other cards needed when playing Seamus sees me leaving them at home mostly. Too many required TNs make using all the abilities tricky. Belles can slow models as well, fairly well inside Seamus’ aura so they’re still the go to with him in my opinion.

Seamus didn't use the Philip and doxy I think but all the proper summoners did. This was in regards to making Philip shine, if you're not doing his whole card thing I'm not sure the equation holds. If you are drawing 4 cards I think you can spare that 7 though. His seamus had a lot of belles to pull you in no matter where you stood so he coulsgank you.

[Paddywhack]

1 hour ago, Skylifter-1000 said:

Damn, I've been playing Doxies as some of my first ever Malifaux models, and I never realized their target could be pushed in ANY direction. I always just used it to push their target towards them to get their pounce attack.

This game just never let's one stop learning. 

 

That is their biggest advantage over Rotten Belles for me. Sometimes I want to control where the other model goes a bit more. However the RB has much longer range and is Move rather than Push, which also has it's advantages. 

[Skylifter-1000]

Well, this topic has certainly enlightened me about the use of Doxies - and I can imagine using one with Philip for cards, as they can both still go forward. Otherwise, it would have been somewhat strange to just have him and another model sit there on the base line half the game. 

[Ludvig]

6 minutes ago, Skylifter-1000 said:

Well, this topic has certainly enlightened me about the use of Doxies - and I can imagine using one with Philip for cards, as they can both still go forward. Otherwise, it would have been somewhat strange to just have him and another model sit there on the base line half the game. 

That would have made them pretty terrible. Cards aren't worth THAT much.  

[Skylifter-1000]

2 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

That would have made them pretty terrible. Cards aren't worth THAT much.  

And that's what I was thinking when I wrote my comments further up - that maybe I'd use a Necropunk for the two markers, and then Philip would just sit there and nom them for 1 AP each, so that Necropunk would have moved their 6" leap but would have to stay within 6" of the immobile Philip for next turn's cards. And that sounded pretty terrible, even in a game like Ours. 

Now with that Doxy, I can absolutely see the use of it, as Philip moves quite a good bit with that (and the Doxy, too, at least on turn two). Still situationally useful, but useful. 

[TeddyBear]

personally i found him unfailing in every resser list especially in gg2018. He can block also interact actions.

[Ludvig]

24 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

personally i found him unfailing in every resser list especially in gg2018. He can block also interact actions.

Chatty only works if you take that action and only until the end of the turn. If he is within 6" of one of my models that would like to interact and activates to put that up you better believe my horrible min 4-5 damage beaters are gunning for him hard.  Not saying it's impossible that he'll survive but he will need to work for it.

[Skylifter-1000]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

Chatty only works if you take that action and only until the end of the turn. If he is within 6" of one of my models that would like to interact and activates to put that up you better believe my horrible min 4-5 damage beaters are gunning for him hard.  Not saying it's impossible that he'll survive but he will need to work for it.

It's good with Molly, though, since she can make him take a (1) and his Manipulative will stay on until he activates. And a Doxy can push him into position. 

[Frollo the Wordbearer]

My 2 cents. 

I think P&N is incredibly good with masters who Needs lots of cards and can effort quite a lot of their base crew in support: let's say Nicodem and Molly. 

Nico will only spend 8ss for P&N and then a medium Crow and a corpse on turn 1 (necropunks work extremely good) to feed him with schemes. Totally worth it. 

Molly totally needs cards for her summon and her defensive trigger, but needs another model to feed him. Pricier than nico, but still worth it, I think. 

I see how he could be very good with Kirai too (malevolence and summoning) but I don't play nor know her. 

With other masters I don't feel P&N to be a must have in any way, I prefer using these stones for more synergistic models. 

Imho

[sakurazuka38]

17 hours ago, Ludvig said:

They have a (0) to push their walk towards the target and then push the target its walk in any direction. So the doxy starts her walk away from Phil on the line of the deploy. Drops a marker towards where Phil is going, then does her (0) so she ends up near Phil and he goes 8" forward and slightly centered between the old marker and the one she is about to drop. She then drops the final marker with her last ap. Philips base and the markers makes it able to push the full 8" and still have reach to both of them for the card draw. The next turn she can only drop one marker if she wants to push him forward or do a similar thing and push towards another model if you want her to drop twice and get a bit up the board.

I still don't understand the trick on first turn : - 1 ap to walk away from Philip.

-1 ap to drop the scheme marker

- O action to "exchange" places (doxy push back to Philip and he goes forward)

- I'm now an 1 ap short to drop the second scheme where Philip used to be.