Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Von Schill uses his Clockwork Arm on the gremlin Pere Ravage, and damages the little green dude for his last wound.  Which happens first?

Does Von Schill launch Pere, hopefully into his unsuspecting Kin, and then he explodes, leaving nothing for his brethren to remember him by but a Corpse Marker.

Does Pere explode, washing harmlessly off the Freikorp Armor, and then Von Schill tosses the lifeless body across the landscape, and finally placing a Corpse Marker next to Pere's husk?

... or, something completely different.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, DXXXVIII said:

Doesn't all triggers get resolved after damaging?
But the model dies after all triggers and abilities have been resolved?
https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/2017/04/14/the-master-timing-chart/

No, after damaging is a specific timing. Triggers resolve when they say they resolve unless they use one of the specific after timings. 

 

On the actual subject I have nothing to add because no quotes of abilities are provided in the topic and I couldn't find the upgrade for von Schill so I gave up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On VS upgrade  - Nythera Aftermath - Clockwork arm - Built in trigger - After succeeding place the target within 6" of it's current location, not in terrain

Pere ability - Explosive Demise - All modles within pulse 2 suffer 4 damage when this model is killed (not sacrificed)

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You die in step 5. After succeeding is resolved after step 5 so he dies in place, resolving any abilities and you have nothing to place after that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

all triggers (after resolving, succeding and damaging) happen before the model is killed. you place Pere first and then he dies.

Only after damaging is moved up to happen before a model's death and that is because it is specifically mentioned as doing so. The others don't. It's under "Declare one trigger" on page 32 of the big book. Damage and death are handled during step 5 and the famously confusing after triggers happen after that step (except for after damaging specifically if the model dies).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Only after damaging is moved up to happen before a model's death and that is because it is specifically mentioned as doing so. The others don't. It's under "Declare one trigger" on page 32 of the big book. Damage and death are handled during step 5 and the famously confusing after triggers happen after that step (except for after damaging specifically if the model dies).

To (slightly) further complicate that, specifically after damaging would actually happen after death but before the model is removed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ludvig said:

Only after damaging is moved up to happen before a model's death and that is because it is specifically mentioned as doing so. The others don't.

all of them happen "after Step 5". removing models from the table does not belong to the Step 5 (see it's description on p.33).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Only after damaging is moved up to happen before a model's death and that is because it is specifically mentioned as doing so. The others don't. It's under "Declare one trigger" on page 32 of the big book. Damage and death are handled during step 5 and the famously confusing after triggers happen after that step (except for after damaging specifically if the model dies).

you have changed your post :P anyway, you're probably right. I assumed that killing and removing the model is not a part of a duel (albeit reducing it to 0 wounds is and happens during step 5) on the ground that step's 5 description says nothing about that. but now I can see the "after damaging" explanation on p.32 as indirectly implying that other triggers happen after the model is killed (if it is killed). gosh, this rulebook could be written more clearly.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

all of them happen "after Step 5". removing models from the table does not belong to the Step 5 (see it's description on p.33).

 

18 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

in other words: triggers belong to the duel sequence, model's death does not. you resolve duel, then you eventually remove the model.

I don't agree at all. On page 33 it says that you resolve the effects of the attack, such as damage, during step 5.

Under "Damage and wounds" on page 46 we find that: 

When a number of points of
damage is taken by a model, it
reduces its current Wounds by that
amount. If the model is reduced to 0 or fewer
Wounds it is immediately removed from the
game as killed.

Nothing here says that if a model dies you autoamatically proceed to after step 5. In fact the game tries to clarify that the reducing to 0 wounds (part of the damage resolution and step 5) immedeately leads to death and all that means of marker dropping etc. 

On page 32 is the part about after damaging being resolved before the model is removed. Since it doesn't specify that you move the killing point pack I can only assume it moves the trigger resolution forward since it is a section about when to resolve triggers in relation to other events although this has been debated hotly. These trigger timings have led to massive headaches and numerous discussions since the launch of m2e. :) 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

you have changed your post :P

Sorry, I often edit within half a minute of posting, I have a twitchy trigger finger.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×