Jesy Blue Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 Von Schill uses his Clockwork Arm on the gremlin Pere Ravage, and damages the little green dude for his last wound. Which happens first? Does Von Schill launch Pere, hopefully into his unsuspecting Kin, and then he explodes, leaving nothing for his brethren to remember him by but a Corpse Marker. Does Pere explode, washing harmlessly off the Freikorp Armor, and then Von Schill tosses the lifeless body across the landscape, and finally placing a Corpse Marker next to Pere's husk? ... or, something completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXXXVIII Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 Doesn't all triggers get resolved after damaging? But the model dies after all triggers and abilities have been resolved?https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/2017/04/14/the-master-timing-chart/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sklertic Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 No, it differs from trigger to trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, DXXXVIII said: Doesn't all triggers get resolved after damaging? But the model dies after all triggers and abilities have been resolved?https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/2017/04/14/the-master-timing-chart/ No, after damaging is a specific timing. Triggers resolve when they say they resolve unless they use one of the specific after timings. On the actual subject I have nothing to add because no quotes of abilities are provided in the topic and I couldn't find the upgrade for von Schill so I gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriel Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 On VS upgrade - Nythera Aftermath - Clockwork arm - Built in trigger - After succeeding place the target within 6" of it's current location, not in terrain Pere ability - Explosive Demise - All modles within pulse 2 suffer 4 damage when this model is killed (not sacrificed) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatlatinspeakingguy Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 all triggers (after resolving, succeding and damaging) happen before the model is killed. you place Pere first and then he dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 You die in step 5. After succeeding is resolved after step 5 so he dies in place, resolving any abilities and you have nothing to place after that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said: all triggers (after resolving, succeding and damaging) happen before the model is killed. you place Pere first and then he dies. Only after damaging is moved up to happen before a model's death and that is because it is specifically mentioned as doing so. The others don't. It's under "Declare one trigger" on page 32 of the big book. Damage and death are handled during step 5 and the famously confusing after triggers happen after that step (except for after damaging specifically if the model dies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clement Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ludvig said: Only after damaging is moved up to happen before a model's death and that is because it is specifically mentioned as doing so. The others don't. It's under "Declare one trigger" on page 32 of the big book. Damage and death are handled during step 5 and the famously confusing after triggers happen after that step (except for after damaging specifically if the model dies). To (slightly) further complicate that, specifically after damaging would actually happen after death but before the model is removed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatlatinspeakingguy Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Ludvig said: Only after damaging is moved up to happen before a model's death and that is because it is specifically mentioned as doing so. The others don't. all of them happen "after Step 5". removing models from the table does not belong to the Step 5 (see it's description on p.33). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatlatinspeakingguy Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 in other words: triggers belong to the duel sequence, model's death does not. you resolve duel, then you eventually remove the model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatlatinspeakingguy Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, Ludvig said: Only after damaging is moved up to happen before a model's death and that is because it is specifically mentioned as doing so. The others don't. It's under "Declare one trigger" on page 32 of the big book. Damage and death are handled during step 5 and the famously confusing after triggers happen after that step (except for after damaging specifically if the model dies). you have changed your post anyway, you're probably right. I assumed that killing and removing the model is not a part of a duel (albeit reducing it to 0 wounds is and happens during step 5) on the ground that step's 5 description says nothing about that. but now I can see the "after damaging" explanation on p.32 as indirectly implying that other triggers happen after the model is killed (if it is killed). gosh, this rulebook could be written more clearly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 20 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said: all of them happen "after Step 5". removing models from the table does not belong to the Step 5 (see it's description on p.33). 18 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said: in other words: triggers belong to the duel sequence, model's death does not. you resolve duel, then you eventually remove the model. I don't agree at all. On page 33 it says that you resolve the effects of the attack, such as damage, during step 5. Under "Damage and wounds" on page 46 we find that: When a number of points of damage is taken by a model, it reduces its current Wounds by that amount. If the model is reduced to 0 or fewer Wounds it is immediately removed from the game as killed. Nothing here says that if a model dies you autoamatically proceed to after step 5. In fact the game tries to clarify that the reducing to 0 wounds (part of the damage resolution and step 5) immedeately leads to death and all that means of marker dropping etc. On page 32 is the part about after damaging being resolved before the model is removed. Since it doesn't specify that you move the killing point pack I can only assume it moves the trigger resolution forward since it is a section about when to resolve triggers in relation to other events although this has been debated hotly. These trigger timings have led to massive headaches and numerous discussions since the launch of m2e. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said: you have changed your post Sorry, I often edit within half a minute of posting, I have a twitchy trigger finger. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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