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ElPuto

Hamelin in Ours

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I was reflecting on the GG18 for my Masters (Hamelin, Jack and Parker) and, all of a sudden, I came with this revelation: is Hamelin effectively weak in Ours?

The whole game of Hamelin is about cycling, and with cycling you summon constantly new models. The things you play with him surely follow this road: Abominations, Desolation Engine, Ashes & Dust, Rat Kings, Rat Catchers, Stolen. 

How is my Tyrant supposed to play into this Strategy?

Help me guys and you'll get a slice of cheese.

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,I think Ours is intended to be sub-optimal with Summoners. If you still want to play that kind of master, then killing enemy models and luring them where they can't score is probably the best plan of action. Might want to consider bringing both Nix and Benny for the high cast diseases and relatively high soulstone cost. Spread as much blighted as you can early and use the cast actions of the stolen late in the turn.

Plague pits is probably a must in this case.

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3 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

,I think Ours is intended to be sub-optimal with Summoners. If you still want to play that kind of master, then killing enemy models and luring them where they can't score is probably the best plan of action. Might want to consider bringing both Nix and Benny for the high cast diseases and relatively high soulstone cost. Spread as much blighted as you can early and use the cast actions of the stolen late in the turn.

Plague pits is probably a must in this case.

So, Parker or Jad Daw are better choices, aren't they?

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I do not think Hamelin is weak in Ours, you just have to adapt your playstyle - like no Deso assembly first turn, and play more safely with A&D. Activation control is still big thing, and your summoned models can be meatshield against opponent models.

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I'd consider Misaki and Viks best choices in Ours.
Ours is actually very killy once you realise you score it by having more SS on the table than your opponent.
Viks get the bonus of having a free henchman thats worth another 10ss to the strategy. You allready start your crew with 70SS worth of models while your opponent starts his crew with only 60ss. (Masters and 0ss hench count as 10)
Misaki has acces to Yorogumu, which are both durable and killy and able to reposition to a tablequarter you might loose through "smoke and shadows" if needed.

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9 minutes ago, DXXXVIII said:

I'd consider Misaki and Viks best choices in Ours.
Ours is actually very killy once you realise you score it by having more SS on the table than your opponent.
Viks get the bonus of having a free henchman thats worth another 10ss to the strategy. You allready start your crew with 70SS worth of models while your opponent starts his crew with only 60ss. (Masters and 0ss hench count as 10)
Misaki has acces to Yorogumu, which are both durable and killy and able to reposition to a tablequarter you might loose through "smoke and shadows" if needed.

I don't own both Masters, but thanks for the clarify!

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Hamelin is actually really good in Ours as long as you pick the correct crew. You want to use the rat engine to out activate your opponent and then use Hamelin's AP to move models out of the quarter they want to be in with either Pipes or Obey. 

Your crew wants to mainly be big beaty models as you can use your summoned rat catchers and rat kings to scheme run. So a tough to kill crew that packs a punch that Hamelin can allow to out activate your opponent and move models around after their activation will work really well. 

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10 minutes ago, PositronMike said:

Hamelin is actually really good in Ours as long as you pick the correct crew. You want to use the rat engine to out activate your opponent and then use Hamelin's AP to move models out of the quarter they want to be in with either Pipes or Obey. 

Your crew wants to mainly be big beaty models as you can use your summoned rat catchers and rat kings to scheme run. So a tough to kill crew that packs a punch that Hamelin can allow to out activate your opponent and move models around after their activation will work really well. 

Tonight I will play Outcasts vs Arcanists into Ours. Guarded Treasure, Covert Breakthrough, Show Of Force, Recover Evidence, Vendetta as Schemes.

Thought about something like this:

Hamelin, 5 SS, Oathkeeper, Piper, Plague Pits

- The Stolen

Nix, Hollow, Infectious Melodies (this spot can be either Emissary + 1 SS or Sue + Return Fire + 2 SS)

Strongarm, Oathkeeper

The Midnight Stalker, Scramble

Obedient Wretch

Malifaux Rat x2

 

8 activations, first turn double Stolen out, the deployed Stolen can turn into Rats who can turn into King and so on.

Surely, I can play a similar list with Parker, or a tankier one with Jack Daw, don't know what's the best option here.

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I have no problem playin Hamelin in Ours. Especially if you know you are going up against the Viks. Hamelin plays back and doesn't give htem many good targets to charge into. 

Laz and Midnight stalker are hard to take down. Hamelin is hard to get rid of himself. Obedient Wretch is often behind cover and ignored once the engine gets going. Once Ashes and Dust is taken down once, he's 14 points you play down but there is a definite possibility he will remove that many points during the game anyway. Trappers are another consideration to take out small models quickly to deny your opponent points as well and can be obeyed for extra shots. 

 

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Parker can also be good at it. You can reliably get 2-3 stones per turn and use Parker himself to tank a while lot of damage and use hail of bullets and Mad Dog's cover denial to keep people out. Jack can also use Jaakuma, Greed, Alyce, Monty, Hanna, Anna etc to stack pretty big nasty auras to keep people out too, although these pieces tend to be killed without too much effort. Maybe a nurse can help with that.

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4 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

I have no problem playin Hamelin in Ours. Especially if you know you are going up against the Viks. Hamelin plays back and doesn't give htem many good targets to charge into. 

Laz and Midnight stalker are hard to take down. Hamelin is hard to get rid of himself. Obedient Wretch is often behind cover and ignored once the engine gets going. Once Ashes and Dust is taken down once, he's 14 points you play down but there is a definite possibility he will remove that many points during the game anyway. Trappers are another consideration to take out small models quickly to deny your opponent points as well and can be obeyed for extra shots. 

 

Nice move, I don't own Laz or Trapps but the first one is on my bucket list. Btw, tonight I played Parker.

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3 hours ago, Saduhem said:

Parker can also be good at it. You can reliably get 2-3 stones per turn and use Parker himself to tank a while lot of damage and use hail of bullets and Mad Dog's cover denial to keep people out. Jack can also use Jaakuma, Greed, Alyce, Monty, Hanna, Anna etc to stack pretty big nasty auras to keep people out too, although these pieces tend to be killed without too much effort. Maybe a nurse can help with that.

Used Parker tonight, lost miserably. I always get 2 SS per turn, never got more: how can you do it?

Maybe I'm not recalling it right, but I thought you can attach more than one Upgrade per turn.

Ye, used Hail of Bullets and Parker did a good job, but Sandeep is too strong for him, in my opinion (probably 'cause of the constant summoning). Probably Hamelin or Jack could have done better.

 

Used this list:

Parker, 4 SS, Black Market, Hail of Bullets, Stick Up

- Doc Mitchell

Mad Dog, Lucky Poncho, Oathkeeper

Hodgepodge Emissary, Conflux of Stolen Goods

The Midnight Stalker, The Bigger They Are

Desperate Mercenary

Desperate Mercenary

Wokou Raider

 

MVP of the game was the Stalker oneshotting Carlos with RJ on Dmg. :ram:ram thanks to Dandy Hatter (engaged with Carlos and one Acolyte) + The Bigger They Are = 12 Dmg!

My biggest mistake was not preventing the dmg from Banasuva on Mad Dog, and then my dear Henchman got killed by the Explosive Demise.

Particularly liked the Wokou Raider here, tanking like 6 or 7 attacks from Banasuva, thanks to the no-cheating ability.

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2 hours ago, ElPuto said:

Used Parker tonight, lost miserably. I always get 2 SS per turn, never got more: how can you do it?

Maybe I'm not recalling it right, but I thought you can attach more than one Upgrade per turn.

Ye, used Hail of Bullets and Parker did a good job, but Sandeep is too strong for him, in my opinion (probably 'cause of the constant summoning). Probably Hamelin or Jack could have done better.

 

Used this list:

Parker, 4 SS, Black Market, Hail of Bullets, Stick Up

- Doc Mitchell

Mad Dog, Lucky Poncho, Oathkeeper

Hodgepodge Emissary, Conflux of Stolen Goods

The Midnight Stalker, The Bigger They Are

Desperate Mercenary

Desperate Mercenary

Wokou Raider

 

MVP of the game was the Stalker oneshotting Carlos with RJ on Dmg. :ram:ram thanks to Dandy Hatter (engaged with Carlos and one Acolyte) + The Bigger They Are = 12 Dmg!

My biggest mistake was not preventing the dmg from Banasuva on Mad Dog, and then my dear Henchman got killed by the Explosive Demise.

Particularly liked the Wokou Raider here, tanking like 6 or 7 attacks from Banasuva, thanks to the no-cheating ability.

Ugh, I think Sandeep is a rough match up for Parker. Breaking through the Oxfordian Mages 3x line without a melee missle is hard. I would also bring Dead outlaws instead of the Wokou riders but it looks like your Wokou Rider paid off pretty well. You're getting me to reconsider the model! For the 3 stone turns there is an Australian player on a recent Episode of schemes and stones that goes over it. I think it's conditional on an enemy's choice though. Although besides a "Just outplay the enemy" approach... I wouldn't know how to face Sandeep as Parker. Too much pressure from too many sources.

With Jack if you can get a nurse to Paralyze banasuva (or give him the condition that gives him +2 walk), that's 1/3 of his summoning slots just kinda stuck there. Not much of a relief, just something to keep in mind.

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17 hours ago, ElPuto said:

So, Parker or Jack Daw are better choices, aren't they?

It depends. You probably can't just Play Hamlin in "the normal way" and expect to do well in Ours. But Hamlin can do well in Ours if you change the way you play him. Obey is a good way to change the numbers in your favour. Just don't spend a lot of points and time on creating a rat engine that can't score you the strategy unless you have a plan that allows for that. 

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6 hours ago, Saduhem said:

Ugh, I think Sandeep is a rough match up for Parker. Breaking through the Oxfordian Mages 3x line without a melee missle is hard. I would also bring Dead outlaws instead of the Wokou riders but it looks like your Wokou Rider paid off pretty well. You're getting me to reconsider the model! For the 3 stone turns there is an Australian player on a recent Episode of schemes and stones that goes over it. I think it's conditional on an enemy's choice though. Although besides a "Just outplay the enemy" approach... I wouldn't know how to face Sandeep as Parker. Too much pressure from too many sources.

With Jack if you can get a nurse to Paralyze banasuva (or give him the condition that gives him +2 walk), that's 1/3 of his summoning slots just kinda stuck there. Not much of a relief, just something to keep in mind.

Ye, it is. Probably Parker suffers summoners (above every kind of weaknesses that someone can find on his cards), 'cause he wants to play with some elite builds, so you're generally stuck around 7/8 activations. That's why I played the Mercs, I needed some cheap activations. 

Taelor could have been a good choice, she's Fast with Scramble, hits hard every summoning made by Sandeep, and can tank fairly well. But still, I forgot to prevent some damage on Mad Dog (a lot of time without playing Parker, thought he was an Enforcer lol), so my bad.

I like Dead Outlaws, especially with Jack, but in this game I preferred to play a bit of melee piece. Wokou Raiders are in a grey area to me: they've great stats, attacks and abilities, so they can be a pretty missile if you need it. Just place a Scheme with the Emissary, and you're watching a 13" of threat. The melee attack is good, and keeps the Raiders always moving. Still, for 8 points, they probably need a bit more: Df6 (to tank better in Ml but even vs Sh or Ca), or a :tome written in the Ca of their 0 action and something more (like Unimpended). I think they can't be 7 points Minions for all they got, but they need a bit to justify their cost.  

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28 minutes ago, Adran said:

It depends. You probably can't just Play Hamlin in "the normal way" and expect to do well in Ours. But Hamlin can do well in Ours if you change the way you play him. Obey is a good way to change the numbers in your favour. Just don't spend a lot of points and time on creating a rat engine that can't score you the strategy unless you have a plan that allows for that. 

I made a list for the night but didn't use it. It was: Hamelin, Stolen, A&D, Laz, Stalker, Obedient Wretch, Rats x2. Probably, it could have been a better choice, especially with a bit of tankiness in the Enforcers.

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I played Hamelin, Stolen, Benny, Nix, Librarian, Big Jake, Obedient Wretch and 2 rats. Big Jake was included to make Guarded treasure easier since non-peon non-minion makes it tricky to score. Rat Catchers and Rat Kings can run schemes well enough without worrying about contributing to the strategy. I won 9 - 4 vs Marcus

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19 minutes ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

I'm liking all the stalker play in these lists. He's one of my newest favorites to try.painting him up currently.

He's one of the best scheme-runners in Faction, and pretty good to kill his targets too.

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5 minutes ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

He's certainly quick! How do you feel with the desperate mercs note they are 3ss?

Cheap and nice, thanks to them dying into an Explosive Demise I got 2 SS easy. Pair that with Parker skills and you get a deep pool of preventing and :+fate.
Their :+fate when damaged is useful to put some damage into certain pieces, 'cause their output is not that bad. Yesterday, one put 3 dmg into Banasuva (he was unable to cheat).
And their Disguised is golden. I covered my Emissary from any threat thanks to them.
So, they're fine runners, useful from time to time, and cheap enough to throw them around and not cry if they die miserably. If you get a SS, even better. 

If you have an Henchman, I suggest to pick a pair of them. But even one can be useful, just to have one more activation, 'cause Outcasts crews tend to play elite.

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To get the third stone a turn with Parker, you need to use “Stick Up” and have your opponent choose to give you a stone. Depends entirely on your opponent- some I’ve faced just tank the damage.  You can also get another stone from Dead Man Walking from High Noon (it’s the built in removal for it).

How often did you try/ land Hands in the Air on Sandeep or the mages?  I find it really pressures summoners when they have to discard two cards per summon.

I’ve also been trying Taelor, and the changes to her cost have really helped her I think.   Might I also recommend Anna Lovelace?  She’s become a near staple in my Parker crews (auras shut off alpha pushes, synergy with Dead Man Walking, summons Seishin for activations and healing...I could go on).

for Ours generally-

Like others have said, Hamelin is fine in Ours.  You just won’t play the “everything is expendible” route, just the “almost everything is expendible” route.  I do feel Ashes and Dust are fine in it, since they force your opponent to deal with a huge chunk of Soulstone in a quarter.  If they do?  Now your A&D can merrily tear through their crew, and you won’t care if it dies because any AP they spend attacking it after that point isn’t going into your other scoring models.  That said, I don’t own Hamelin or A&D, so that’s just my armchair faux.

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3 minutes ago, Diceman87 said:

To get the third stone a turn with Parker, you need to use “Stick Up” and have your opponent choose to give you a stone. Depends entirely on your opponent- some I’ve faced just tank the damage.  You can also get another stone from Dead Man Walking from High Noon (it’s the built in removal for it).

How often did you try/ land Hands in the Air on Sandeep or the mages?  I find it really pressures summoners when they have to discard two cards per summon.

I’ve also been trying Taelor, and the changes to her cost have really helped her I think.   Might I also recommend Anna Lovelace?  She’s become a near staple in my Parker crews (auras shut off alpha pushes, synergy with Dead Man Walking, summons Seishin for activations and healing...I could go on).

for Ours generally-

Like others have said, Hamelin is fine in Ours.  You just won’t play the “everything is expendible” route, just the “almost everything is expendible” route.  I do feel Ashes and Dust are fine in it, since they force your opponent to deal with a huge chunk of Soulstone in a quarter.  If they do?  Now your A&D can merrily tear through their crew, and you won’t care if it dies because any AP they spend attacking it after that point isn’t going into your other scoring models.  That said, I don’t own Hamelin or A&D, so that’s just my armchair faux.

Unfortunately, the table was full of cover and LoS blocking, and he just kept on striking me with a Banasuva every turn. Mages were far away, so the Acolyte and Carlos. I could get them only with the Stalker, who did his job then died to Kandara + Acolyte. That's it, I couldn't put my conditions on enemy 'cause I was yet behind and I tried to play safe, especially after losing half of my list to Banasuva exploding lol.  
Thanks for the advises btw, I will surely put Taelor and Anna on the table. Do you think the latter is worth 10 points? Or even 11 if I choose for an Upgrade on her?

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12 minutes ago, ElPuto said:

Unfortunately, the table was full of cover and LoS blocking, and he just kept on striking me with a Banasuva every turn. Mages were far away, so the Acolyte and Carlos. I could get them only with the Stalker, who did his job then died to Kandara + Acolyte. That's it, I couldn't put my conditions on enemy 'cause I was yet behind and I tried to play safe, especially after losing half of my list to Banasuva exploding lol.  
Thanks for the advises btw, I will surely put Taelor and Anna on the table. Do you think the latter is worth 10 points? Or even 11 if I choose for an Upgrade on her?

Exploding Banasuva makes everyone’s day rough.  He’s a solid model, and Sandeep is generally excellent.

You are welcome!  I think Anna is a great all around choice despite the Merc tax.  I take her in most of my crews for:

1. Her auras to shut down pushes and places.  

2. Her Ca 6, min 3, doesn’t randomize Attack.  It plays really well with Dead Man Walking (“Oh, you Walk into engagement so I can’t shoot you?  Anna don’t care.”)

3. Rush of magic.  Card cycling is always nice.

Vortex is a handy 0 to have in most games, as it can drain cards from hand or completely disrupt a bubbled crew.  Seishin summoning is less reliable (I find it pretty card intensive) but the payoff in activations and even more healing for Parker is nice.

All that said, I probably over value Anna because I’m worried about push/ place shenanigans in my local meta (Yan Lo, Kirai, Nellie, and Kaeris everywhere) so please take my comments with some salt.  

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9 minutes ago, Diceman87 said:

Exploding Banasuva makes everyone’s day rough.  He’s a solid model, and Sandeep is generally excellent.

You are welcome!  I think Anna is a great all around choice despite the Merc tax.  I take her in most of my crews for:

1. Her auras to shut down pushes and places.  

2. Her Ca 6, min 3, doesn’t randomize Attack.  It plays really well with Dead Man Walking (“Oh, you Walk into engagement so I can’t shoot you?  Anna don’t care.”)

3. Rush of magic.  Card cycling is always nice.

Vortex is a handy 0 to have in most games, as it can drain cards from hand or completely disrupt a bubbled crew.  Seishin summoning is less reliable (I find it pretty card intensive) but the payoff in activations and even more healing for Parker is nice.

All that said, I probably over value Anna because I’m worried about push/ place shenanigans in my local meta (Yan Lo, Kirai, Nellie, and Kaeris everywhere) so please take my comments with some salt.  

Really helpful, thanks mate! :)

 

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