Terry Bailey Sr Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Is there a master or crew in Arcanists that can be considered a jack of all trades? I mean I know Malifaux is designed to bring models in according to the strat/schemes. But, If there was one master and crew one could build to always take. One that has an answer for most situations which master and crew would it be? I am leaning toward Sandeep with Mages as this type crew. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Sandeep. You'll never need another master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Sandeep absolutely. He's the master of nothing, but he's decent at everything (and makes others decent at everything too) which kind of makes him amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rillan Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Can someone tell me why then if Sandeep is so strong and become even stronger in book V Wyrd dont nerf him ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thottbot Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, Rillan said: Can someone tell me why then if Sandeep is so strong and become even stronger in book V Wyrd dont nerf him ? good question, we're wondering that aswell. from all the errata talks i've had everywhere it seems most were expecting a hammer towards sandeep 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bailey Sr Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Thottbot said: good question, we're wondering that aswell. from all the errata talks i've had everywhere it seems most were expecting a hammer towards sandeep SHHH, I am painting him right now. Don't give them any ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thottbot Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 sandeep sucks wyrd, buff him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 25 minutes ago, Rillan said: Can someone tell me why then if Sandeep is so strong and become even stronger in book V Wyrd dont nerf him ? Because Sandeep holds Aarons parents in a Cave somewhere... I would argue Marcus is more versatile than Sandeep, but you need a large numebr of modles to make use of his versitility. Sandeep has in game versatility with the combination of summoning and upgrades which is a lot of his strength. So form the view point of building 1 crew to ruel them all, you probably will ahve most luck with Sandeep or Ramos (because lots of people give him a very similar core regardless of what you are trying to do) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCL Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Sandeep and mages. Spend your money on other crews if you like. You MAY pull them out in niche situations when the stars align. Only other competitively winning strategy is an alpha Marcus list I think. But ive been wrong before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Sandeep's buffs in book 5 were fairly minor: a fun-mode only limited where he can only summon Banasuva with his melee attack but can't summon anything else, a non-limited which helps friendly casters, and Kandara for Gamin mobility and can steal/remove the Gamin upgrades (over a period of 2 turns, which to be honest is longer than most summoned Gamin would last). They're all nice to have, but not particularly strong or game breaking. As far as why he hasn't been nerfed, I suspect either they don't think he's crazy strong (tier 1 sure, but there are definitely better masters) or the how is the problem: it's more that he gives a lot of little buffs than there being any one obvious problem, so they'd probably have to make several changes to satisfy the people calling for nerfs on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frollo the Wordbearer Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 45 minutes ago, retnab said: Sandeep's buffs in book 5 were fairly minor: a fun-mode only limited where he can only summon Banasuva with his melee attack but can't summon anything else, a non-limited which helps friendly casters, and Kandara for Gamin mobility and can steal/remove the Gamin upgrades (over a period of 2 turns, which to be honest is longer than most summoned Gamin would last). They're all nice to have, but not particularly strong or game breaking. As far as why he hasn't been nerfed, I suspect either they don't think he's crazy strong (tier 1 sure, but there are definitely better masters) or the how is the problem: it's more that he gives a lot of little buffs than there being any one obvious problem, so they'd probably have to make several changes to satisfy the people calling for nerfs on him. To be honest, I think Kandara is great with sandeep. You can summon bonasuva turn 1 before she activates and have him like a normal model all the game. And if he dies, you can resummon him back like you normally would. She takes the gamin upgrade only on turn 1 and then acts as a mobile tanky model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Oh she is good with him, I just think it's more of a good option than an enormous buff (she would now be holding the upgrade herself after all, and if that Banasuva dies you can now only summon in 2 models at a time unless you get rid of her upgrade) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinn Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 hours ago, retnab said: Oh she is good with him, I just think it's more of a good option than an enormous buff (she would now be holding the upgrade herself after all, and if that Banasuva dies you can now only summon in 2 models at a time unless you get rid of her upgrade) Can't you get rid of it by grabbing another gamin upgrade? This way Kandara lets sandeep get around his summoning restriction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 8 hours ago, Rillan said: Can someone tell me why then if Sandeep is so strong and become even stronger in book V Wyrd dont nerf him ? It think it's because he doesn't do anything particularly overpowering or overly frustrating to play against. As far as I can tell, most of the complaints against him are because he's versatile enough that you can ignore the other masters in the faction if you'd like to. Arcanist players complain that they feel like they need to play Sandeep instead of the master that they'd prefer playing and everyone else complains because they are sick of playing against Sandeep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Jinn said: Can't you get rid of it by grabbing another gamin upgrade? This way Kandara lets sandeep get around his summoning restriction. You can, but then she has another one. It cycles out which upgrades are available, but once she takes one you can only summon two more before cycling another upgrade out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Although Sandeep is the answer, I'm going to throw in a vote for Marcus anyway. He's a "Jack of all trades" model because he is effectively a faction by himself. Of course, as said, you then need to buy and carry a bunch of models where Sandeep gets by with a mere handful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frollo the Wordbearer Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 14 hours ago, retnab said: You can, but then she has another one. It cycles out which upgrades are available, but once she takes one you can only summon two more before cycling another upgrade out. Why? If my book and my Kanda ran card are correct, she has 2 (0). One let her discard an upgrade to attach one of her limited and one let her discard an upgrade to pass a gamin's upgrade to her. So, in the first turn you can summon bonasuva from her, activate her and take the gamin's upgrade from him. On the second turn you remove the gamin's one to attach a Limited one. This way you can have on the table 3 gamins + bonasuva if you want. Did I miss something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Frollo the Wordbearer said: Why? If my book and my Kanda ran card are correct, she has 2 (0). One let her discard an upgrade to attach one of her limited and one let her discard an upgrade to pass a gamin's upgrade to her. So, in the first turn you can summon bonasuva from her, activate her and take the gamin's upgrade from him. On the second turn you remove the gamin's one to attach a Limited one. This way you can have on the table 3 gamins + bonasuva if you want. Did I miss something? That's two turns to cycle out an upgrade (which I believe is that the claim was). In turn three Sandeep would be unable to summon anything, he could summon a 4th Gamin in turn 4, and the would be unable to summon again in turn 5. That all assumes that nothing dies. You may occasionally get a 4th summoned gamin on the table but in general Kandara will either be removing an upgrade that has become inconvenient to have on the Gamin it was summoned with or an upgrade that Kandara wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 You can get rid of the first one by not hiring her with a limited and swapping the Gamin one for a limited, but you can only do that once per game and then she'll be taking up one of the 3 Gamin upgrades. It's handy, but doing that every turn Sandeep's realistically only getting 1 extra summon slot each turn after the first if everything's timed and spaced right and she doesn't need to change her limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frollo the Wordbearer Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, retnab said: You can get rid of the first one by not hiring her with a limited and swapping the Gamin one for a limited, but you can only do that once per game and then she'll be taking up one of the 3 Gamin upgrades. It's handy, but doing that every turn Sandeep's realistically only getting 1 extra summon slot each turn after the first if everything's timed and spaced right and she doesn't need to change her limited. This is what I don't understand. She can be hired with one of her limited and substitute it for a Gamin one, in my opinion. Why she shouldn't? @WWHSD well.. I think the switch-upgrade mechanic is good on the first turn for a non upgraded Bonasuva. From then she becomes a tanky schemer. In my opinion it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxthom Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 38 minutes ago, retnab said: You can get rid of the first one by not hiring her with a limited and swapping the Gamin one for a limited, but you can only do that once per game and then she'll be taking up one of the 3 Gamin upgrades. It's handy, but doing that every turn Sandeep's realistically only getting 1 extra summon slot each turn after the first if everything's timed and spaced right and she doesn't need to change her limited. With Regent can you discard a face down decoy to grab an upgrade off another gamin? Would be a good way to get the engine started on turn one without sacrificing one of her limited upgrades or upgrade slots, right? Also with Regent, she could Target herself and discard a shackle from her self, then just discard her limited and immediately reattach it right? Would be useful for ditching a shackle from herself if she doesn't have any other options. Are either or both of those legal moves? Will they actually turn out to be useful? Are they already well known and I'm just late to the party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 hour ago, retnab said: You can get rid of the first one by not hiring her with a limited and swapping the Gamin one for a limited, but you can only do that once per game and then she'll be taking up one of the 3 Gamin upgrades. It's handy, but doing that every turn Sandeep's realistically only getting 1 extra summon slot each turn after the first if everything's timed and spaced right and she doesn't need to change her limited. I'm not sure that I follow. The limiting factor on how fast Kandara can cycle Gamin upgrades out so that an extra Gamin can be hired is the limit of one zero action per activation. It doesn't really matter if you hire her with a limited or not. During her activation she can either drop an upgrade to take an upgrade from a Gamin or she can switch an attached upgrade for one of her limited upgrades. To make a Gamin upgrade leave play so that it is usable again she needs to take the zero action that takes an upgrade from a Gamin and then take either of her zero actions to discard it. You could bring her with 2 upgrades (one of her limiteds and decoy) and either chain remove upgrades from Gamin while keeping her limited attached or to drop both of her upgrades (in different activations) to end up with two Gamin Upgrades. Either way you go you'll end up stuck having at least one Gamin upgrade for the rest of the game (actually the trick Saxhorn posted should work here to get rid of a gamin upgrade while Kandara has her limited attached already). I don't see a scenario that you benefit from not hiring her with one of her limited upgrades. I guess you could always bring Hans and have him use ping to knock and upgrade off of Kandara. That gets the upgrade out of play quickly but she can only take upgrades from gamin if she has one to discard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, Saxthom said: With Regent can you discard a face down decoy to grab an upgrade off another gamin? Would be a good way to get the engine started on turn one without sacrificing one of her limited upgrades or upgrade slots, right? Yup. 12 minutes ago, Saxthom said: Also with Regent, she could Target herself and discard a shackle from her self, then just discard her limited and immediately reattach it right? Would be useful for ditching a shackle from herself if she doesn't have any other options. I don't know what a shackle is but it sounds like it should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxthom Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Shackles of Earth/wind/fire is the debuff that the visions/commands gamin upgrades give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxthom Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, WWHSD said: You could bring her with 2 upgrades (one of her limiteds and decoy) She is a henchmen, wouldn't decoy make a Max of 3? I will probably start most games with human guise, imbued energies, and decoy. Sounds pretty good to me. Anything sound better in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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