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Errata 2018 - your minds


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5 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

I know the general opinion on shinobis, but I think they're very disruptive (not necessarily strong) and being cheap has some interesting implications for the health of the game.

I think they are probably still behind the curve slightly in Gremlins just because most of our other 5ss models have reckless. The cheaper cost does make them much more interesting in TT for me. 

The biggest problem with Shinobis for me is that their mobility is tied to poison which can be quite hard to get onto models for Gremlins. 

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The models that got a price drop in the errata are pretty widely recognized as being at least slightly subpar and underrepresented on the table, that goes for all factions, so if other factions can us

The pigapult doesn't do strats or schemes on its own, but it's at its most powerful when used as an enabler - just bring it for a ride in Interference with Som'er or Ulix and you'll see what I mean, y

I think one of the biggest impacts on why some gremlin players are so despondent about the increase in cost of Burt and Franc is to do with the lack of high min damage attacks we have.  Normally

Personally I freaking hate that our two real beater models (Higher than min 3) got the largest nerfs besides the nurse. Going from 7->8 sucks. Throw in the fact that already we were kinda weaker looking in gg18 it just kinda blows. Also since they are our only two real heavy hitters at least one is probabaly the way forward. (I think for most lists I’m dropping Burt and keeping franc because Francois helps us deal with certain things that most other models in our range can’t)

 The worst was McTavish because as is he was only taken with Wong and now even with Wong he might not be worth it. (Especially since taking two bushwackers is cheaper and probably more efficient.)

On the other hand I think the biggest winners for us are: 

1) Survivor - these guys are freakin sweet for 4ss each. They are def 5 wp 5 armor 1 htk reckless models with ml 5 rg 2 and an awesome 2/4/5 damage that often will do poison damage. That’s unheard of levels of power for 4ss. In addition they the same damage spread on a 9 inch range gun if they hit a 5 on the (0). Is it a guarantee? No but on a 4ss model that’s gravy to have a gun as good as that ml attack. The one short coming is wk 4 but I think they can make up for it with reckless & the movement tricks that we have (slop haulers do and they also are wk4.) I think this is probably the biggest winner out of the whole errata because survivors were almost playable before but because of how many good 5ss models there were they ended up being totally overlooked (mostly because of slops and lightning bugs having a bunch of utility + decent damage)

2) raphael - this guy is pretty resilient and at 6 it’s just great. I think he’s close to auto take with Somer now because they need exactly the same stuff (do it like this on rams) and getting a few extra powerful shots is nice for such a cheap price. You do have to watch out for his low def and wp but armor & htk help.

3) bushwhacker - these guys are mah & Somer only imo but they have awesome stats at 5ss def / wp 6 6 wounds and pretty great movement in mah (they can get an 8 inch push every turn if needed). Since they have 2/3/4 crit strike and the two movement triggers they are pretty good in ml and their shooting that ignores cover is pretty great now (in comparison) since mctavish cost more than double their cost at the same sh. They play different in Somer and mah but for mah they are great all around models while for Somer they are better gun line pieces that can fight in combat if approached. (For me I think I’d only take them in mah but who knows in a super shooty Somer list 1-2 could work)

4) mech porkchop - he is now an interesting option with def 6 and armor for 6. His + to charges for the duration of an activation is nice (and works during Zoraida’s obey). The porkchop has the nice 2/3/5 ml 6 that on 50% of the triggers is + 1 damage(or burning). also this helps Ulix a bunch because now taking a 50mm base pig is cheap. Also for supply wagon it’s a cheap 50mm. This is also a nice buff to sparks since it makes it cheaper to get that scrap marker.

Honorable Mention - whisky golem - I would have loved if he went down to 8 (-2 like a few of the riders) but even at 9 he is pretty decent. a nimble wk/cg 6 gives him nice range and he does pack a punch. Since Burt and franc are more expensive I think he will see the table as a slightly more resilient piece. (The main thing preventing him from being higher on my list is that the taxidermist exists....the taxidermist fills a similar role and it can summon so 9/10 times I think I’d take the taxidermist over him. Though if all the dirty cheaters are all used up the whiskey’s free upgrade gives him that extra resilience that the taxidermist wouldn’t have.)

Although the other buffs are nice They didn’t get enough of a push (I don’t see myself using mancha over the whiskey or franc). I do wish they made Moon shinobi 4 ss like survivors because then they could be in a slot where they didn’t have to be better than lightning bugs and slop haulers ( lightning bugs do basically everything better than moon shinobi....unless your fighting the rare df 6+ with wp 4 or less)

 

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4 minutes ago, lame0 said:

Although the other buffs are nice They didn’t get enough of a push (I don’t see myself using mancha over the whiskey or franc). I do wish they made Moon shinobi 4 ss like survivors because then they could be in a slot where they didn’t have to be better than lightning bugs and slop haulers ( lightning bugs do basically everything better than moon shinobi....unless your fighting the rare df 6+ with wp 4 or less)

I overall agree with your post but Gloowy McTavish was filth. I prefered if they changed magical to work on :melee attacks and dropped merc from Tavish personally. 

As for the quote above I think its really more of LB problem who are broken at 5SS. I`m not saying they need an increase. I would just rebalance the whole faction to not be so reckless-reliant.

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In my opinion, the cost increase on Burt and franc were expectable. The McTavish increase, not so much, but if I'm  committing to bring him, I'll bring him at 10 or 11 SS. 

I always liked the mech porkchops as a model that is not resource intensive, even for 7ss. Its problem was the competition in the 7SS bracket. Now I'll definitely bring it more often.

I am very interested in the survivors now, as I always struggled to justify bringing them instead of other alternatives.

I really think that the Raphael cost decrease was wyrd throwing us a consolation prize for the increases in enforcer/henchmen costs. The model was already good, but now is almost an autotake

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On 1/6/2018 at 4:13 PM, generalbear said:

Why tho mate?

Just speculating that they're hanging up the faction for the same reason I'm considering it as well. Point increases on models that (IMO) really feel like the result of a VERY loud and VERY influential clamor of "OP" directed at the Gremlin faction as a whole. It really feels like Wyrd doesn't know what to do with Gremlins. Even the character design and visual aesthetic seem to be getting increasingly disjointed--which is aggravating to me because I got into this for the visual/art aspect.

It seems the general consensus is that we should all have been expecting Burt and Francois to get nerfed. Fine. But in the last few months there must have been dozens of pages of discussion of ways to achieve that in a more appropriate fashion. You've got TOS coming out and that's taking up a lot of focus...got it...but I think there was a better way to have done the errata. Admittedly this is just my not so humble and somewhat aggravated opinion. Three erratas in a row of this same sort of nerf/cuddle just makes me want to hang up the Gremlins until the M3E dust settles. I decided to solo Brewmaster for 6 months straight so maybe 10T is a new direction to go? And maybe in those 6 months I'll decide I was overly closed-minded in my measure of this errata.

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If you don't consider Francois and Burt worthy of a 1ss bump I think we're playing different games. Those two are absurd, and Burt is frequently taken as a mercenary because of how much better he is than many 8ss beaters.

Also, it's pretty widely accepted that Gremlins as a whole are the least consistently internally balanced faction, especially the first 2 books, which would stem from them being the newest faction with almost no released models and smallest player group at the time the books were done.

Burt, McTavish and Francois bumping 1ss is not going to break the faction at all.

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People always talk about model comparison from multiple factions. I think factions have to be different in strengths and weaknesses to keep the game interesting. The Gremlins thing was being squishy, fast and hard hitting. If you take away our glasscannons and give other factions like ressers, who are supposed to be slow, tanky and resummoned, things like kentauroi who can transport Nicodem, the dude who is supposed to be that slow moving hardcore summoning engine, over the whole map in 1 turn, then where is the point of different faction identities anymore? Like why the fk should I play zipp and enjoy being insignificant for the benefit of being the fastest most annoying Master in the game when suddenly any damn ht2 Resser Modell looks back at me and laughs. 

Srsly wave5 and this errata seems to me like wyrd wants to take away what gremlins true identity was and leave us with faction wide mediocrity and a new greenskinny „ah this is the funny fluff faction that isn’t competitive but people play them for the looks and humor“ identity. 

Maybe the buffs will come in when the Homefront nightmare box will be about to release. Cause that made them buff the probably top master in the game, Hamelin with a perfect henchman Benni, the midnight stalker and a borderline upgrade, while the prewave5 worst Master in the game, aka mah tucket received no important model and a shit version of hamelins upgrade. 

That is so hardcore paradox, it has to be the good old „op things sell better“ method. 

Gotta wait for the nightmare gremlin box and the buffs coming with it. 

Sadly. 

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7 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

That arguement would be more valid if there wasn’t all the cross faction hiring that currently exists. I feel it’s a very poor argument presently. 

So other then Burt, where is all the cross faction hiring from gremlins? 

And how does crossfaction hiring have anything to do with kentauroi being a slap in the face to gremlins? 

In my experience poor arguments are those one to two sentence comments that just say something like: „your argument is invalid...“ or „

7 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

That arguement would be more valid if there wasn’t all the cross faction hiring that currently exists. I feel it’s a very poor argument presently. 

 

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On ‎8‎.‎1‎.‎2018 at 4:51 AM, -Loki- said:

If you don't consider Francois and Burt worthy of a 1ss bump I think we're playing different games.

I think that those were very fair changes, agreed.

On ‎8‎.‎1‎.‎2018 at 4:51 AM, -Loki- said:

Also, it's pretty widely accepted that Gremlins as a whole are the least consistently internally balanced faction, especially the first 2 books, which would stem from them being the newest faction with almost no released models and smallest player group at the time the books were done.

It is maybe widely accepted but I'm not sure it's true. If we consider the first two books, Neverborn got the original Lucius and Collodi in the same book and Zoraida was already there. All three are control buff Masters but one was garbage, one wasn't very good and one was god-like.

And if we consider the whole, TT has had things like the original Samurai and Oiran and Archers and Low River Monks and High River Monks and and and. And even after the somewhat massive buffs only LRMs are commonly seen. And then they now have Yasunori and Terracotta Warrior and Emissary and so on.

Or howabout Guild? Lady Justice is one of the most iconic Masters in the game and she finally became sorta competitive in Wave 5! Original Lucius and McCabe came in the same book. There's Lawyers and Guild Guard and Governor's Proxy and so on and so forth along with Franc and the pre-nerf Loco-Box-Sonnia.

Or Book 1 Outcasts. If you check what were in Book 1 and what was in Book 2 - sheesh! You can list with fingers from one hand the non-errataed Outcast models from book 1 that were being used.

I really have no idea why Gremlins were somehow labeled as the least internally balanced faction. Probably because of the sudden uproar of cries of n€rf on our better stuff while the furor against other factions' OP stuff was more muted. Personally I blame all the quietly accepted narrative as the Gremlins as the punching bags and not a real faction and so on and then when they climbed to the lofty heights of being the fifth winningest faction in GG17 all hell broke loose and they were seen as crazy OP.

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10 hours ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

Gotta wait for the nightmare gremlin box and the buffs coming with it. 

Sadly. 

I don't understand this, the nightmare box won't change the rules in any way shape or form. It will just be current rules with alternative sculpts. I don't think it has any relation to what else is coming out. 

 

1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said:

It is maybe widely accepted but I'm not sure it's true. If we consider the first two books, Neverborn got the original Lucius and Collodi in the same book and Zoraida was already there. All three are control buff Masters but one was garbage, one wasn't very good and one was god-like.

I really have no idea why Gremlins were somehow labeled as the least internally balanced faction. Probably because of the sudden uproar of cries of n€rf on our better stuff while the furor against other factions' OP stuff was more muted. Personally I blame all the quietly accepted narrative as the Gremlins as the punching bags and not a real faction and so on and then when they climbed to the lofty heights of being the fifth winningest faction in GG17 all hell broke loose and they were seen as crazy OP.

I think its probably because someone said it once, and no one convinced them that they were wrong. I'm seen several threads where some one says something, and disregard disagreements to what they have said in the thread and then use that thread as evidence that what they said was right. 

I know that their playtest forum was the quietest, but since models like Bert and McTavish already existed, they were probably among the more playtested externally models, so I'm not sure how that helps. I think a lot of it was due to the low avalibility of gremlin models during the first couple of years cementing "facts" in peoples heads that just aren;t quite true. Things Like Gremlins have Low wp isn't true over the faction as a whole, but in the early days Bayou Gremlins were in lots of lists because they existed, and they have low wp, so people got used to  facing gremlin crews with low wp and assume its still true. 

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On 1/7/2018 at 9:51 PM, -Loki- said:

If you don't consider Francois and Burt worthy of a 1ss bump I think we're playing different games. Those two are absurd, and Burt is frequently taken as a mercenary because of how much better he is than many 8ss beaters.

Also, it's pretty widely accepted that Gremlins as a whole are the least consistently internally balanced faction, especially the first 2 books, which would stem from them being the newest faction with almost no released models and smallest player group at the time the books were done.

Burt, McTavish and Francois bumping 1ss is not going to break the faction at all.

Though I agree that only 2ss in most lists wouldn’t break gremlins but when you add up the nerfs it really feels like a total dick punch (stuffed piglets, Lenny, rooster riders, pigapult added in with the nerf to franc, Burt & mctavish.....it’s just oppressive on a faction with so few decent options as is.) It does feel weird that we got hit the hardest of all the factions when as far as I can see resers (in the Uk) and arcainists here in the states didn’t get hurt when they are winning more of the big tournaments and didn’t get a nerf at all (nurse nerf was a bigger hit to Zoraida in gremlins and neverborn than anything.) Also I think Arcainists got a great buff in Cojo and are getting stronger and stronger models (wave 5 was great for them). Like I said in my previous post Somer is quite a bit worse this year than in 2017 and so hitting us again after a big nerf in the summer and a weak wave 5 isn’t going to do anything positive and it just makes me feel like if I want to be competitive in tournaments with the old gremlin play style I should just play collodi.

From what I can see they went specifically after the strong mercenaries But it’s totally uneven. For example bishop as a merc (now only 9ss) outside of gremlins is way better than Burt (swift df/wp 6 three more wounds fights df or wp....kind of crazy). I mean even in gremlins I could see bishop seeing some play with Trixie pushing him 21.....nasty. I just think that this nerf wasn’t that well thought out given some of the buffs out there. I wish they were a little more restrained on gremlins given that we keep getting weaker every update over the last year compared to every other factions for three errata and a book....

The one positive is that I do think it’s interesting that they gave us a little resilience with this errata and I think now we could end up being one of the more annoying factions to put down but It’s still worse than what we could do before.

Something like this is where my list is headed toward:

50 SS Gremlins Crew
Somer Teeth Jones + 4 Pool
 - Family Tree (2)
 - Do Over (1)
 - Encouragement / dirty cheater / liquid bravery
Skeeter (2)
Skeeter (2)
Raphael LaCroix (6) + (maybe dirty cheater)
Slop Hauler (5)
Slop Hauler (5)
Survivor (4)
Survivor (4)
Survivor (4)
Survivor (4)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
 
or 
 
50 SS Gremlins Crew
Somer Teeth Jones + 4 Pool
 - Family Tree (2)
Skeeter (2)
Gremlin Taxidermist (7)
 - Dirty Cheater (1)
Raphael LaCroix (6)
Slop Hauler (5)
Slop Hauler (5)
Survivor (4)
Survivor (4)
Survivor (4)
Survivor (4)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
 
 That’s 12-13 models That turns into 15-16 turn one. You have 5 htk models with a savings of 5ss from before. Between Somer 6 bayous and Raphael you have a super strong shooting base (encouragement can turn into 2 stones or dirty cheater/ liquid bravery on Somer and Raphael so lots of great options) The slops heal everyone and keep pace with the survivors wk 4 so you don’t fall behind as much. The slops can also get models down to def 4 where the survivors can rip apart a model way over their cost. It’s hard to drop the taxidermist so that’s the reason for the second list (the taxidermist usually does a ton of work for me because of summoning and he’s mostly self sufficient...but his damage is pretty similar to a survivor which costs half and they have = or better stats so he might get cut...)
 
The biggest issue for me is that now we have to mass up even more models..... I think this is the direction I am going towards and it seems that wyrd has pushed us from mostly 6-8 ss models to almost all cheap models since our good stuff is too expensive now and two survivors out damage and out last every other model in our range. (vs higher armor factions like guild & arcanists lightning bugs will come in while vs anticipated wp battles like neverborn and resers liquid bravery comes in since it’s an almost all minion crew and makes all the minions base 6-7 wp).
 
Even with the above it just feels kind of uphill and I’ve been messing around with collodi. I think in a tournament I don’t see any gremlin combination being quite as good as him :(. I am going to test out survivors and stuff but on paper it doesn’t seem like gremlins will be my first choice anymore. (Maybe A lightning bug throwing out a low ram to heal on his (0) could be sweet and having 12+ models that when they die near Somer get you two cards is pretty nice but yeah we will have to see.)
 
 
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I accept the increase in Burt (who had been an auto include in every list I have written in the last year) and François makes sense as do the decreases. I can't recall taking any of the pre-reduced models (except Raphael in kin lists (who was only ever taken when I already had both François and Burt as I felt he was the weakest of the three)) in any competitive lists.

I'll certainly give the cheaper models another run and see how I feel about them.

I get the impression that the increase in McTavish 's cost is more driven by the impact he has when played as a merc than when he is played in faction. Perhaps a more elegant way to address this would have been to make him cost two additional stones as a merc rather than one. 

I do think that some other models could have done with a hand.  For example Rami who feels a stone too much, or sparks who really has to offer something more than he currently does 

I've not had a chance to fully review all of this in the context of gg18 but my first impression is that we are in a weaker position than we were while other factions have benefited (I don't play other factions but my gaming group seem relatively content with the changes to their factions). 

 

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31 minutes ago, Rosskov said:

 I do think that some other models could have done with a hand.  For example Rami who feels a stone too much, or sparks who really has to offer something more than he currently does 

I've not had a chance to fully review all of this in the context of gg18 but my first impression is that we are in a weaker position than we were while other factions have benefited (I don't play other factions but my gaming group seem relatively content with the changes to their factions). 

 

A big part of what makes Sparks good is his interaction with constructs, and thus far Gremlin constructs were generally bad.  (It's why he and his pig were considered a lovely gift to Mei Feng rather then Gremlins when he came out).   Now that most of the Gremlin Constructs have come down in cost, he's going to feel better to run.

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One thing is sad and can't be understood - stuffed piglet is 3ss and survivor is 4ss. I think they should cuddle them back to 2ss.


I have sad tradition of buying boxes.
When i just started Malifaux and bought Somer+Ophelia - Lenny got nerfed after few weeks.
When i bought taxidermists - piglets got nerfed in a 2 months.
When i bought McTawish for 2018 New Year - guess what happened after first week of 2018?

I'm thinking to make kickstarter - people donate for box they hate the worst, i buy it and it getting cuddled in the ground.

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6 hours ago, PolishSausage said:

I agree with that, now that both guild and outcast have large quantity of 3ss models ( that are very good)

This means that all the factions now have access to 3ss or less models to help their activation control.

Only in certain masters. TT for example does not have this outside of mccabe.

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It is true that Gremlins are usually hit hard, and constantly throughout the various erratas. This leads to more inconsistencies - a clear one being 3SS stuffed piglets which are completely useless, now even more than before. Compare that to a 3SS Guild Guard...

The main reason is the overly loud noise and complaints about the Gremlin faction from the rest of the players. Perhaps we should be more noisy and keep shouting "This guy is OP", or "this faction is OP" too, as loudest noise seems to be a factor. Keep in mind that some factions like Neverborn or Guild only got point reductions - say what you like, but that's not very fair. One could argue that Doppelganger is also incredibly good, for instance, so why didn't that get raised to 8SS? It would still see play, but more rarely and paying more - just like Frank, for instance.

I feel the changes to Burt, Frank and Tavish are ok but they could have been done better - for 2 out of those 3, it would have made more sense to just increase the merc tax to +2, so to limit their usage outside of Gremlins without impoverishing the faction. 

I do feel the game is shifting and sadly the factions are slowly losing a bit of flavor - now Guild has the big schemey crew (Nellie), Ressers move fast as mentioned before (and they have now the big ranged damage dealer Reva), etc. Just wait until Neverborn get a healer and then the toy is broken for good. On the Gremlins side things are getting worse as what was our "knack" is progressively getting spoiled. Other factions also have now access to cheap, significant 3SS models and we can't really rely on strength of numbers anymore as it was before...
I could see (I'd like to, at least) Stuffed going back to 2SS, perhaps with some sort of other limitation on hiring.
I wish this didn't happen, but in my experience it is inevitable in a while - players of a faction immediately start whining "but the other faction has THIS, why can't I have it?". It happened in every single game I've played so far. In my opinion it impoverishes the game, and factions lose flavor, but it might just work and sell more models/subscriptions/copies of the game. Personally I don't like it.

As for errata changes: I'm disappointed nothing has been done for Stuffed/Pigapult and also for the Emissary, possibly the worst model in our faction! Also, most point reductions are good but some models are, in the present state, beyond redemption, and a single -1 doesn't cut it. These include Mancha and Shinobis, for example, IMHO the most problematic, but also Bushwackers and Boars are still meh. In particular Shinobis really need some sort of rule change/rework.

The only ones I'm really quite intrigues are Survivors (they were poorly designed from the start at 5SS) and Raph - I was already playing him at 7 so that's a bargain. Also Running Tab - much needed. Even cheaper to bring the monks now ;)

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Well..

book 5 upgrades did very little, with this errata it did not help much.

From the start Gremlins were the "funzie" faction, as mentioned in the previous post, there are many people that hate losing to "funzie" faction so cry wolf

 

With some of the erratas I think guild plays now more like the old gremlins but does it better in every way due to abundance of good upgrades and solid henchman.

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I would argue Bayous and Guild Guards and Desperate Mercs all have ups and downs and are pretty close.

I do think the "Burt and Tavish merc tax should be +2" is not fully understanding the problem. Tavish in Gremlins was/is too good because of Ooh Glowwy which IMHO has similar power levels to Debt+Fast Nellie Tavish (especially with Old Cranky). Upping the tax would just make him OP in Gremlins and Nellie. Make magical not work on projectile attacks and I'm all for him dropping the merc  trait and in cost.

 

Burt was just an undercosted beater. Plain and simple. I don't think he's useless for 8 and he seems pretty balanced now. But since a lot of people were considering him for 8 previously something was clearly off.

Stuffed Piglets are meh for 3SS. They are still ok summons but there is a huge difference in spammable 2SS model and spammable 3SS model so I understand the change. I do think their activations should just have an activation pass like mechanic like Nellie has and they could stay at 2 SS. For example after you activate a stuffed piglet I can pass an activation for free.

That being said I'm in no opposition to other gremlin models getting buffs- I think Survivors are good, Raphael is wtf good and Golem seems reasonable. I don't know about other changes but I think Porkchop and Boars deserve a try at least.

I don't think that NB or Guild getting nerfs just for the sake of it is a good way of errata.

I also think that since rare 1 models were increased, from a crew perspective, the changes are pretty minimal but it gives chances to other models.

 

Also, Gremlins still have at least 2 stupid models in the form of Lightning Bugs and Swinecursed....

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26 minutes ago, generalbear said:

Why are bayous the best 3ss model in the game?  

Pre this errata they had nothing to really compete with - other 3ss models were generally rare 1 or insignificant. Guild Hounds were probably the closest comparison but they're Rare 4 and insignificant.

Post errata it's not quite so clear cut and I agree that Guild Guard and Desperate Mercs both have some nice advantages. They both have better reliable damage tracks for example, and 5 wds on guild guard for 3 stones is pretty bonkers. I think Bayou Gremlins probably stil just win out for a couple of reasons though. Drunk & Reckless being the big one, getting one turn of 10" movement then an interact is amazing and if you get a point off it, that's a great investment. The other thing that keeps them up there I would say is Bayou Two Card. Ideally you don't want to spend too many resources on your chaff, so being able to get a sort of positive flip on anything you want without spending any cards really helps up their effectiveness.

I'm willing to be impressed by the other two though, the most powerful part of a Bayou Gremlin to me has always been that they are an activation for so cheap. Time will tell if Guild and Outcasts start to use spam tactics that I'm fond of.

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30 minutes ago, trikk said:

Stuffed Piglets are meh for 3SS. They are still ok summons but there is a huge difference in spammable 2SS model and spammable 3SS model so I understand the change. I do think their activations should just have an activation pass like mechanic like Nellie has and they could stay at 2 SS. For example after you activate a stuffed piglet I can pass an activation for free.

Agreed. That's way better idea.

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2 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Pre this errata they had nothing to really compete with - other 3ss models were generally rare 1 or insignificant. Guild Hounds were probably the closest comparison but they're Rare 4 and insignificant.

Post errata it's not quite so clear cut and I agree that Guild Guard and Desperate Mercs both have some nice advantages. They both have better reliable damage tracks for example, and 5 wds on guild guard for 3 stones is pretty bonkers. I think Bayou Gremlins probably stil just win out for a couple of reasons though. Drunk & Reckless being the big one, getting one turn of 10" movement then an interact is amazing and if you get a point off it, that's a great investment. The other thing that keeps them up there I would say is Bayou Two Card. Ideally you don't want to spend too many resources on your chaff, so being able to get a sort of positive flip on anything you want without spending any cards really helps up their effectiveness.

I'm willing to be impressed by the other two though, the most powerful part of a Bayou Gremlin to me has always been that they are an activation for so cheap. Time will tell if Guild and Outcasts start to use spam tactics that I'm fond of.

Bayou two card isn't as good as a pos flip as you can cheat the pos flip.

 

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