trikk Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 23 minutes ago, Merchant said: Fair point, Age of sigmar, and warhammer 40k seem to have adapted to this problem and risen above. Although they have their rules online for free in both app and printable form. They have a lot of unique rules to each unit as well. Now I played a bit back in 1.5 and M2e was supposed to streamline a lot, and it did. However wyrd has gotten away from that a bit. Not that I'm faulting them. Considering 40k has a meta shift every 2 months I don`t think that they have "adapted it". Same for errata and faq. I mean they release Chapter Approved 2 months ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Happy for you all to continue the discussion about differences in the approach to rules and errata across different game systems, but it's gone off-topic for this thread. If you've got more to say on that topic, start a new post about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 27 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said: Awesome, I'm so glad that Wyrd has listened to their customers. Instead of nurfing and ruining models with errata, they adjust the soulstone cost. I've been advocating for points adjustments over nurfs/ buffs on this board for a while. Thank you Wyrd, thank you for hearing and responding appropriately to your customers. This all looks pretty good, though I noticed almost all of the rider models got a discount, but not the Mechanical Rider. That's unfortunate. Otherwise, I am very pleased to see this approach to the errata. While I do think this is a good way to errata, I don't always think it's the best. It really depends what is needed to fix the model in question. As an example, I really don't think anyone is still going to take the High River Monk even with the SS drop. That model needs a complete overhaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sklertic Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Will be interesting to see how the riders will perform (and how often) now that they are cheaper. I'm really happy this discount wasn't applied to the mech rider as well. Many of my slightly dusty figures will see the table now, so thanks for this (and Lucius will probably find his way into my collection soon as well ) Happy new years to all as well! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatter Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 13 hours ago, Nukemouse said: Whilst i can understand the desire for the cost changes to minimize changes in card text, I am very disappointed to see how few upgrades got changed. The little changes like the one to Sinister Reputation plus the new upgrades for masters could have really helped diversify builds, but instead many useless upgrades will remain that way. I am very surprised to see Scion of Black Blood and Angel Eyes not get cost reductions, plus increasing cost of Yasunori and A&D but leaving Nekima alone? I don't think there is an appetite to change any of the models in the starter box. The last thing you want, when attempting to bring new players in, is immediately slap them with a need to get new cards. Honestly, they probably belong on the lower end of the curve, as they are teaching tools. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbazabba1920 Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Tweaking the cost of older models seems to be a good start. As everyone is aware of the power creep thing, this reevaluation is definitely welcome and prevents too many unforeseen balance issues as opposed to completely re-writing a bunch of models. Starting off small and limiting the amount to foreign elements introduced into what is a very expansive/varied game is the appropriate initial response. Could you imagine if all of these models had ability changes and modifiers, how long it would take to get a accurate feel for how that overall impacted the game? Plus at this stage, you can create your crew on the app and all of your cards are still valid in most cases for ability reference if you like to use cards still. Baby steps = better balance down the road. We’ll get there. Thank you Aaron and team for going the distance and taking the measures to help those that paid for some models they never take to feel better about using them. This won’t be the final errata, I’m sure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaphoricDragn Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 I admit I’ve come to think of this errata as m2.1e. I think it was a clean and least intrusive it probably could be. It is a new move we’ve not really seen from Wyrd on this scale before. Especially with the app now this just effects list building not actual game play, and I at least have been using an app for list building for years now anyway. As an aside, Hans vs Trapper is an interesting debate for me now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 I think that the errata is great for the most part. One thing I'm really worried about is Guild Guard at 3SS. The -1 changes are greater the smaller the starting point and Guild Guard are very durable and very spammable due to how they can do all sorts of things. Not very well as such but weight of numbers is a thing. Desperate Mercs are slightly less worrisome due to them being far less durable but I'm a bit worried about that as well. Gremlins used to be the only Faction with good 3SS Significant Minions so this was a big blow against them. I doubt that we'll start seeing 10 Guard lists but four seems very likely to pad the numbers. All in all Guild seems to be going full speed to crazy town with them being arguably the biggest winners of the new book as well. As for the Gremlin changes, I do like all of them with one exception. Raphael LaCroix going to 6SS is just bonkers. The only thing "wrong" with him was that Francois and Burt outshone him at the 7SS bracket. Dropping him to 6SS makes him very close to an autotake. Won't break the game as he can't be spammed (like some others!) but seems really weird. Moon Shinobi are a bit weird but I really wouldn't want them to have Drunk & Reckless as they already die too easy and with that they would die to a stiff breeze. 5SS makes them interesting, though. Survivors become very interesting at four SS. Along with Mech Pork and Golem getting cheaper this might also make Sparks a more common sight. Bushwhackers are still a bit lackluster but they don't feel like you're completely shooting yourself in the leg with them. Might be interesting to test with the new Mah. Golem is good now. A competitive choice. Mancha is still a bit sad. His main problem is that he needs a ton of high cards and often at specific suits to really function. I think that -2SS would've been better and wouldn't have made him an autotake or anything. Wild Boars are cool now. Burt, McTavish, Francois - all needed and all are fair. McTavish is the only one I'm sad about because he was really at this best outside of Gremlins. But I expect to still see him so whatever. Zoraida is a bit sad at McTavish and Nurses, though, and I'm not sure that she needed the hit. But yeah, a huge errata with only one change that I'm seriously very worried about and then maybe half a dozen cases where I would've done things different. That's a very good showing, I think. Well done, people responsible! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said: I doubt that we'll start seeing 10 Guard lists but four seems very likely to pad the numbers. All in all Guild seems to be going full speed to crazy town with them being arguably the biggest winners of the new book as well. I agree with the majority of your post but Guild could have 4 hounds at exactly the same price as 4 bayous. Most decent players could make them significant too and Wk6 is way better than Wk4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 I said it down in the Guild forum but may as well repeat it for all gremlin ears: I wonder if the spread of 3ss significant minions to other factions will shake things up to the point that setting the stuffed piglets back to 2ss will make sense. Depends on how much the guards and mercenaries are abused, I suppose. We'll get to see whether faction-wide minion spam is strictly a gremlin problem or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, Gnomezilla said: I said it down in the Guild forum but may as well repeat it for all gremlin ears: I wonder if the spread of 3ss significant minions to other factions will shake things up to the point that setting the stuffed piglets back to 2ss will make sense. Depends on how much the guards and mercenaries are abused, I suppose. We'll get to see whether faction-wide minion spam is strictly a gremlin problem or not. The thing about minion spam is that it worked wonders in GG17 because you could outactivate and do CJ and block the enemies CJ. Or see how many models you need in quarters/extraction. GG18 is about going in fast and surviving (both Ply and Public Execution and Ours). Its easier to take down 1 Guard and deny quarters than get rid of a Peacekeeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, trikk said: I agree with the majority of your post but Guild could have 4 hounds at exactly the same price as 4 bayous. Most decent players could make them significant too and Wk6 is way better than Wk4. But I can kill four hounds way, way easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Math Mathonwy said: But I can kill four hounds way, way easier. They are Ht1 so not with Gremlins "What is that barking on the other side of this low fence?" "Ehh, probably nothing" 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 14 hours ago, ooshawn said: my bar for people fixing tabletop systems is pretty low to be honest, so i'm happy to see there are changes to update the game. Having said that however, I think I was looking for something more substantial. I get that point cost adjustments are probably the easiest to incorporate for everyone involved, but i can't help but just look at the changes and feel like they are lazy changes. still probably going to be some dead and hardly used models out there It seems like having substantial changes via errata makes more sense during the summer instead of at the same time that the new gaining grounds drops. Hiring costs are fairly easy to predict the effect of so won’t cause a huge swing either way. A lot of the models that got cost cuts do exactly what they are suppossed to do, however what they did wasn’t quite worth the cost. You’ve either got to add to what they can do or just adjust the costs. If the changes are limited to just point cost a lot more models can be on the recieving end of changes. When Wyrd issues errata that affects card text there’s really a handful of models that are impacted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot4Perdita Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said: I think that the errata is great for the most part. One thing I'm really worried about is Guild Guard at 3SS. The -1 changes are greater the smaller the starting point and Guild Guard are very durable and very spammable due to how they can do all sorts of things. Not very well as such but weight of numbers is a thing. Desperate Mercs are slightly less worrisome due to them being far less durable but I'm a bit worried about that as well. Gremlins used to be the only Faction with good 3SS Significant Minions so this was a big blow against them. I doubt that we'll start seeing 10 Guard lists but four seems very likely to pad the numbers. All in all Guild seems to be going full speed to crazy town with them being arguably the biggest winners of the new book as well. Guild guards were pretty much worthless at 4ss. I never took them. Now that they are cheaper, they can be taken in greater numbers without impeding on the rest of your list. Im excited for this change. Now I will have a choice between guards and my dogs to get cheap activations. Out-activating your opponent is a key advantage in this game. This will be a great counter to all those summoners that out-activate me all the time. Maybe I can finally win Interference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said: Guild guards were pretty much worthless at 4ss. I never took them. Now that they are cheaper, they can be taken in greater numbers without impeding on the rest of your list. Im excited for this change. Now I will have a choice between guards and my dogs to get cheap activations. Out-activating your opponent is a key advantage in this game. This will be a great counter to all those summoners that out-activate me all the time. Except most good players won`t use them that much because outactivation lost a lot of momentum in gg18 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot4Perdita Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, trikk said: Except most good players won`t use them that much because outactivation lost a lot of momentum in gg18 I didn't think that it was out yet. Everyone i know is still using GG2017 strat and schemes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Hot4Perdita said: I didn't think that it was out yet. Everyone i know is still using GG2017 strat and schemes. Its out since yesterday and already in the app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, trikk said: Except most good players won`t use them that much because outactivation lost a lot of momentum in gg18 We shall see. I like how you constantly hammer home absolute truths about what good players do, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot4Perdita Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, trikk said: Its out since yesterday and already in the app. Thanks, I'll have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Math Mathonwy said: We shall see. I like how you constantly hammer home absolute truths about what good players do, though I dunno man. I just copy after @Travis and his MaxValue Podcast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot4Perdita Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, trikk said: Its out since yesterday and already in the app. I just checked CrewFaux. The updated cost of models are there, but not GG2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ergonomic Cat Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said: I just checked CrewFaux. The updated cost of models are there, but not GG2018. The official app - Bad Things Happen. But only on Android I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot4Perdita Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Ergonomic Cat said: The official app - Bad Things Happen. But only on Android I believe. Ok, thanks. I thought CrewFaux was the official Malifaux app. Just looked it up, it's in App Store. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Hot4Perdita said: Ok, thanks. I thought CrewFaux was the official Malifaux app. If it's android only, then guess I can't get it. The app is on iOS. The update with Stats and GG18 isn`t. Should be out next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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