January 2018 Errata

[Adran]

5 hours ago, TheUnseemlyOne said:

So I’ve noticed the caches haven’t been updated in the app.  Was that an oversight?  Was also curious since the cover images of the cards don’t appear to have been updated on wargame vault, so can’t really tell from that.

My long held view with Apps is that they take a long time to correctly update changes. So whilst it might be worth noting it as the app needs updating, i would check more reliable sources such as this thread, that the Caches  have been changed, although I agree it is buried in the thread. Until Wyrd actually put up the corrected cards on the website, take it all with a small pinch of salt. (and I would probably consider it all non official until we see those cards if I was running an event)

[Lucidicide]

I will say that the cache problem is my fault. I'm so used to cost + cache = 13 that I totally forgot to mention it in the list of changes. It was just automatic in my brain.

I apologize for that, but the developers are correcting it.

[SunTsu]

16 hours ago, mojopin said:

23,5$ just on shipping :(. EU friendly options in the future would be great

The trick is to make different small package of things so that they are shipped with standard mail and not with the international package fee, that is much more expensive (more than three times I saw).

[CSchmeed]

I agree with Mikey_C.

I was really hoping for the Freikorpmann to get some sort of errata(s) to help them.  Even though they have decent stat lines, they just seem to be lacking something...  I rarely use them anymore. They can make use of Shill's HTK bubble, but in most Strats and Schemes I have found that I rarely have them close enough to take advantage of it since they are primarily scheme runners.  Depending on the Strats and Schemes, I could play Von Shill closer to them, but pulling him away from the main action isn't good. If you use the emissary they can shoot into engagements without randomizing which is nice, but not a great use for an emissary that is not particularly good. Curious if other Shill players feel that way, or if I am missing something? 

[AngryBogle]

2 hours ago, CSchmeed said:

I agree with Mikey_C.

I was really hoping for the Freikorpmann to get some sort of errata(s) to help them.  Even though they have decent stat lines, they just seem to be lacking something...  I rarely use them anymore. They can make use of Shill's HTK bubble, but in most Strats and Schemes I have found that I rarely have them close enough to take advantage of it since they are primarily scheme runners.  Depending on the Strats and Schemes, I could play Von Shill closer to them, but pulling him away from the main action isn't good. If you use the emissary they can shoot into engagements without randomizing which is nice, but not a great use for an emissary that is not particularly good. Curious if other Shill players feel that way, or if I am missing something? 

I'm with you on this. It's extremely hard to play to Von Schill's synergy if you're trying to get your schemes done in most cases. I think Freikorpmann need a SS reduction as well as Librarians since in most of the games I play they become expensive heal bots that get focused down or maybe (I think this is more so the case) Von Schill needs a little help.

[bindi]

On 1/10/2018 at 8:13 AM, Aaron said:

http://www.wargamevault.com/product/230906/Ten-Thunders-Jan18-Errata-BUNDLE

Aaron, is it possible for the 10t bundle to include all the options available to 10t through infiltration, or can you confirm that the individual cards are now all up to date.

[Lucidicide]

Everything I updated says it was updated in the description. I'm only doing the Factions in each bundle, sorry!

[edopersichetti]

On 1/9/2018 at 8:36 AM, Aaron said:

Hey everyone,

I just want to make a few quick comments about errata.

First, I think it's important to say that no errata will please everyone. Social media and the forum are in a near-constant state of arguing about tier lists and what is good and worth taking. Podcasts debate it for hours at a time. What I see at US tournaments is different than what I saw at the UK Nationals, but the level of play seemed about the same. I think the saying is "different strokes for different folks." As such, you can expect that any nerf will be claimed as not needed, a good move, and not enough. We all have opinions on what's correct (myself included), and it's helpful to consider that what dominates or is terrible in your area or experience may not be so for others. The errata, on the whole, is focused on moving the game toward a more balanced state.

Second, it's worth noting that no errata is going to fix everything. This is the biggest errata Malifaux has ever gotten, and there are numerous claims that it isn't going far enough. There are still imbalanced models, and some of these models may still be imbalanced. I am aware of that. That said, I do think that this errata is putting things in a better place. By limiting the errata's size (and again, this was a big errata), we have the chance to see how things stand while still improving the game overall. Additionally, particularly large erratas will cause an overall sense of confusion about the game state, and they'd create even more consternation based on my first point. Suffice it to say: no, I do not think the game is perfectly balanced after this, but I do think it is better.

Third and finally, I'd like to mention that the cost changes were a targeted strike as I mentioned in the initial post. We've had errata with more rules changes, and we will again in the future. At this point in the game's life, it seemed to me that a number of cost changes were the correct course of action, as well as focusing changes mostly on older models. It's not because they are easier or because there aren't other ways to fix the models. It's because cost adjustments like this can help correctly dial in the points costs of models, which can help us avoid things like power creep.

 

I write all that by way of letting people have some idea of what I'm thinking and how I view errata. I expect there to be praise and criticism any time I touch the game (and the times that I don't). That's all fair enough, and your commentary helps me see how I can further improve the game in the future. I appreciate people leaving their feedback, so I thought I'd leave some of my own.

I apologize to those of you who were negatively impacted by the errata. Hopefully you'll find things you like in it, and I'd appreciate it if you'd continue to leave constructive feedback so that hopefully next time you're the ones who are happy with it (and everyone else can suffer! Mwhahahaha!).

Thanks all!

Thanks Aaron for this explanation. I'm actually happier with this errata than with most of the previous one. I feel point adjustment is a softer change and in most cases it is spot on or at least not harmful. Some models like Survivors for example always felt like the cost was too high from the beginning. Same for other models that were overshadowed by better choices. Just a few models, and I'm talking across factions here, can't be fixed with a simple point adjustment - for example Shinobis, Ice Golem, Bad Juju etc. For those few, I hope a more serious errata is in store, with some rework or rules/stats modifications because they just don't work on the table and 1 point cheaper still doesn't make them useful. So I'd say this errata was maybe 80% successful or the like.

A little comment about all the "popular" mercs/cross-faction hires that were affected (Trapper, Burt, Johan, Nurse, McTavish etc.): I feel the problem was mainly in that they were present everywhere and nearly auto-hires even out of faction, and perhaps a better solution would have been to target this specifically rather than a flat out +1. Don't want to see trappers in every second Collodi list, or Burt in Guild lists? Just make them +2 to hire. Something like "Expensive: this models cost an additional SS to hire as a mercenary". This would limit their cost out of faction without impacting the internal faction balance. I could still see Johan, Burt or Trapper at the original point costs in their own factions. Unless the goal was to limit the usage of these models altogether, in which case this errata is very successful (personally Burt is going to disappear from most of my crews in favor of Taxidermists, Swinecursed and other models in the 7ss range). Please correct me if it is so.

The last comment is about some models that were "forgotten" and were not included in the errata, although in my opinion they needed it more than some that did, like Mouse, Wicked Dolls or Pigapult/Stuffed Piglets. Perhaps they weren't included intentionally because their mechanics are too messed up to be fixed with a simple point cut (to which I agree), but I can't help but think that in particular Stuffed Piglets make no sense at all now. 3SS was already a bad idea before this errata, now for the same cost we have Guild Guards and Desperate Mercs, besides Bayou Gremlins of course, all of which are tougher, and significant minions vs a Peon that does nothing but blow up in a very random way. Even other insignificant Peons (or Minions) like Raptors or Will o Wisp have a lot more purpose than a Stuffed Piglet. Clearly the intention was to limit their spam usage, and now more than ever it looks like working on hiring restrictions would be the best way to go - there are a lot of ways to do this (rarity, hire only with taxidermist, hire them in "bundle" etc.). Right now, they're pretty much summon only....
I hope to see these back at 2SS in July

I might add that it is starting to feel like Gremlins are losing their identity more and more - fast, mobile, hard-hitting and fragile models that rely on numbers and self-hurt to accomplish things. Now other factions are progressively getting their options for cheap models (Guild Guards), for mobility (Kentauroi) etc. I don't know if this is intentional, but it feels like the faction is being matched in their strengths without in return matching some of the strengths the other factions have (the resilience of ressers or Arcanists, for instance, or the elite stats of Ten thunders). This could dangerously lead to them declining towards a fluffy, funny faction but far from being competitive. So here's a toast to armored, hard to wound, terrifying, Wp 6 Gremlins in the next wave

p.s. sorry about the rant on Stuffed Piglets but I feel if things don't get mentioned, they'll never get addressed. I know I'm not the only one who believes there is a serious issue with them...

[Clement]

Does the outcast bundle come with 1 scramble?  Or 3...  My assumption is 1, but I'm hoping for enough.

[trikk]

47 minutes ago, Clement said:

Does the outcast bundle come with 1 scramble?  Or 3...  My assumption is 1, but I'm hoping for enough.

1. Aaron mentioned he can't add multiples.

[edopersichetti]

2 hours ago, aquenaton said:

Hi! I agree on many aspects with you, as I like how this errata is not a complete shattering change and adresses many models problems. As a gremlin, like you, I also feel a bit sad about the changes on our biggest damage dealers in faction, but I personally think those are not so bad. I think gremlins had the most clustered 7ss cost slot of all factions, and it was even getting bigger. Swine Cursed, taxidermists, Franc, Burt, Rami, Raphael, Sammi, Sparks, BBB and Cryers. As you read this, you probably are remembering some names you had never ever played! I know there are support pieces and they tend to be considered on their own, and they should, but if you look into "damage dealers", there are many that tended to be relegated for the places after Franc and Burt. In this regard, in Guild, for example, the "Francisco problem" ended with many competitors (henchmen) becoming cheaper, but if you look at our pool of competitors soon realise that many of this models are new and others would be just crazy for a ss less, so the increasing of Francois and Burt does not scream THE HORROR!!! to me. Maybe Burt was a problem out of faction, but he could be also a problem inside, so the change was not bad in my oppinion. If, as you proposed, the change would be to add a ss when hiring as a merc, you should also remember that most combinations of those models were from masters that managed to hire models with "infiltration" or something like that, so we would still see Burt with Nellie and Nurses with Jack as well as in faction. If the clause was that they costed an extra ss when out of faction, maybe it could have adressed that problem, but now I see more excuses to try Swine Cursed and Sparks (mostly with other changes, but that is not the point).

I agree with you about the models that were left behind, as I find not many reasons to hire the pigapult if I cannot summon the stuffies. Maybe a 6ss upgrade or something for her tha gave you 3 stuffed at the start of the game? Ireally hope to see other models being adressed but I like the way the game seems to be evolving and adaptating, and the company is taking care of its necessities. Maybe gremlins are loosing part of their identity now that everyone is getting cheap people and mobility, but we are also getting strong, resistent models for their cost, and awesome synergies between models across all the faction, wich will let us use models from the wholle collection to resolve problems in stead of needing to play with just a couple pieces.

Hope this overconfident and non competitive mindset is not cause of future nerfs to the faction 

Sorry about my bad english!

Your English is great

Actually I agree with you that this is a chance to get some models off the shelf and play more Taxis, Swinecursed etc. so I'm quite happy about it. But it's not like those models became more competitive, it is just that Burt/Frank are less so. So for casual play this is great, but in a competitive setting, our best options got a hit. This is not the case for other factions that got only point reductions (my first point) and also are more and more reducing the gap for out-activation, speed etc. (my second point).

So I share your optimism regarding games for fun and casual play, but I expect Gremlins competitiveness to be considerably diminished in tournaments (also because GG18 doesn't seem to really favor them). I'm not even a big tournament guy, but this is a fact nevertheless...
Well, if we wanna stay optimist, we can hope that Gremlins sucking at tournament will finally stop biased players from calling them OP and causing more nerfs
Really, I don't know if there's much left to nerf in the faction

For Pigapult/Stuffed, I'm glad we (and many others) agree: it is just plain oversight and even more so now, I really believe they should go back at 2SS and find another solution to prevent/discourage players from hiring 6, if that is indeed still a big issue. In fact, out-activation is not so crucial now as in GG17...

p.s. I don't see which are the strong, resistent models that we got: in the new wave we received Brin, Wrastlers, Bokor, Flying Piglets, Smugglers and Criers. They all die to a stiff breeze...
Off the top of my head the only models with armor are:

- Whiskey Golem
- Gracie
- Emissary
- Porkchop
- Taxidermist
- Raphael
- Survivor

None of them is exactly "tough" to kill apart from Gracie, but she seems to have fallen out of favor (a bit overcosted? I used to love her!). I believe the only Terrifying model we have is the Sow and the only Hard to Wound is Mancha...
So our only somewhat-tough options are the pigs, and paradoxally our best bet might be Survivors, at the new point cost. I'll have to try them. But yeah, we're still lacking in that department.

[Rillan]

Can someone tell me why then if Sandeep is so strong and become even stronger in book V  Wyrd dont nerf him ? 

[edopersichetti]

33 minutes ago, Rillan said:

Can someone tell me why then if Sandeep is so strong and become even stronger in book V  Wyrd dont nerf him ? 

Perhaps they still need to sell a few more boxes  

[SunTsu]

1 hour ago, edopersichetti said:

Actually I agree with you that this is a chance to get some models off the shelf and play more Taxis, Swinecursed etc. so I'm quite happy about it. But it's not like those models became more competitive, it is just that Burt/Frank are less so. So for casual play this is great, but in a competitive setting, our best options got a hit.

I can understand the bad feeling some players had about this errata (well... every errata really...). But objectively all the nerfs were absolutely deserved.

If I counted exactly, there are 64 cards changed. Of these, just 9 are costs increment. Gremlins and Outcast got 3 nerfs each, 2 for TT, 1 for Resser.

On the boosts side: Arcanists got 6 models discounted, Gremlin/Guild 8 models + 1 upgrade, Neverborn 9 models, Outcast 6 models + 1 up (that essentially cancel at least partially the nerf on A&D), Resser 6 models + 1 up, TT 6 models.

So, about the Gremlins, they received the most number of nerfs, but also the higher number of boosts.

Going in details on the nerfs, quite all models nerfed were absolutely and clearly undercosted. McTavish is the most used high cost henchman mercenary in the game (fight well, shoot better, make support, eat markers, push himself, and more); Burt and Johan were so effective in play that had been overused by any faction in the game, models that always, always get their soulstone back... Burt in particular is near to be broken, so difficult to hurt, pushing and clustering enemy models, very good damage dealer, etc; Trapper completely erased Hans from the game; and so on...

Now, saying that the increment of just 1ss on a single non spammable undercosted model like Burt can bring the faction "competitiveness to be considerably diminished" means reading the reality in a wrong way. Particulary in consideration that faction got 9 cost reductions elsewhere. In other terms, if you make a list with Burt and Francois, using also 2 cards of the 9 discounted, you get exactly the same list at exactly the same cost of before. I don't think this can impact competitiveness in any way. It just lets some models leaving the shelf, while few others not always on the table (maybe).

My worthless two cents...

[dancater]

If you look at the explanation for this errata they specifically focused on Book 1 & 2 releases.  Almost everything (except most notably Masaki's Storm upgrade which had caused the meta to explode) was from Book 1 & 2.  So Sandeep a book 4 master was left alone, as were a number of Book 3-5 models that I'm sure are going to score an errata nerf or boost at some point.  Also this errata was again 90%+ simple soul stone cost changes, and other than cache (which I'll admit Sandeep could drop) you can't change a Masters cost only the crew they take, and this is not Sandeep's problem per say.

So it has been a weird errata for us Arcanists.  We scored some really good, almost (we'll see) too good buffs, notably Cojo and the Hoarcat Pride are just evil now.  A number of Arcanist models (and other faction Beasts which Marcus can use) got buffed and could now have real play.  Its odd because this has given more model flexibility and cross-faction balance.

But within the faction the situation between relative masters strengths is probably actually even worse than it was, weak masters like Colette and Kaeris (whose problem is internal mechanics not faction/theme options) remained static while a strong master in Marcus got a sudden influx of even better crew choices thus boosting him overall, maybe significantly.  

So tweaking soul stone costs is a dirty and simple errata fix for poor choice crew models but it does not directly work for masters.  

Hopefully the mid-year errata addresses some more card mechanics issues which is a much harder and more complex balancing method but also works with much more nuance and can directly effect masters.  But I understand why they didn't do that because to do it well it takes months of effort at game balancing a few models, where as this was a quick and simple address of 60+ model issues.  Its dirty but effective, to do this same errata volume with full card mechanic changes would have taken as much work as an entire book release, or maybe more.  This was a errata for maximum numbers with minimum unforeseen impact.

And mostly I think models that needed nerfs got some (especially Book 1 & 2) and those crying for a buff scored as well (with notable exceptions, poor Mouse and those sad little Wicked Dolls).  My biggest worries are probably spam lists of Guild Guard (high Df and Armor on a 3SS significant model) and Hoarcat Prides (I mean I'm going to play them in numbers in a lot of Arcanist lists, at 4SS they are superb).  

Overall like almost every errata I've ever experienced I'm mostly happy, a little worried, slightly frustrated and basically satisfied.

Question, when will the Wyrd online store be likely to have boxes with the new errata'd stat cards inside? - I'm eventually going to need Ashes & Dust for my Crazy Cat Lady crew now the extra Black Friday cats have arrived.  Is there a plan to put the new cards into boxes on the Wyrd store shelf?

[edopersichetti]

7 hours ago, SunTsu said:

I can understand the bad feeling some players had about this errata (well... every errata really...). But objectively all the nerfs were absolutely deserved.

If I counted exactly, there are 64 cards changed. Of these, just 9 are costs increment. Gremlins and Outcast got 3 nerfs each, 2 for TT, 1 for Resser.

On the boosts side: Arcanists got 6 models discounted, Gremlin/Guild 8 models + 1 upgrade, Neverborn 9 models, Outcast 6 models + 1 up (that essentially cancel at least partially the nerf on A&D), Resser 6 models + 1 up, TT 6 models.

So, about the Gremlins, they received the most number of nerfs, but also the higher number of boosts.

Going in details on the nerfs, quite all models nerfed were absolutely and clearly undercosted. McTavish is the most used high cost henchman mercenary in the game (fight well, shoot better, make support, eat markers, push himself, and more); Burt and Johan were so effective in play that had been overused by any faction in the game, models that always, always get their soulstone back... Burt in particular is near to be broken, so difficult to hurt, pushing and clustering enemy models, very good damage dealer, etc; Trapper completely erased Hans from the game; and so on...

Now, saying that the increment of just 1ss on a single non spammable undercosted model like Burt can bring the faction "competitiveness to be considerably diminished" means reading the reality in a wrong way. Particulary in consideration that faction got 9 cost reductions elsewhere. In other terms, if you make a list with Burt and Francois, using also 2 cards of the 9 discounted, you get exactly the same list at exactly the same cost of before. I don't think this can impact competitiveness in any way. It just lets some models leaving the shelf, while few others not always on the table (maybe).

My worthless two cents...

Interesting data so thanks for putting that together. It does not paint an accurate picture though - out of those 8 boosts for Gremlins some are really useless (see Moon Shinobi) or marginal at best (Mancha, Boars etc.) The only one that I really see as a boost is the Survivors (perhaps at 4SS they do have a role, they were overcosted to begin with) and Raphael (I used to play him at 7SS already so that's quite a bargain).

I think you support my point of view on cost increases: you mentioned all models that are over-used mercenaries (to which I would add the Nurse who also ends up in several crews out of faction). The few non-merc models which got an increase were things like Yasunori or Ashes and Dust, which were objectively a bit too brutal for their point cost.
My main gripe with Burt/Trapper/Johan/Tavish etc. was that they were too good out of faction (as it seems it was for you too). So why not discourage their use out of faction, but without hurting their own? Burt makes sense in Gremlins because he fits in a 7SS bracket appropriate to the faction, of course he is too good for other factions that lack the option for a cheap beater. By the way, I suspect this is why other models like Moon Shinobi suck, because perhaps the designer were afraid that if they had, say, reckless, or extra mobility, they'd end up being too good for TT. So flat out adding +1 to Burt/Trapper/Johan etc. is a bit of overkill to me. Of course, +1 is not the end of the world, but in my humble opinion it would have been a cleaner thing to just make them +2 mercs and preserving their faction status.

When I referred to the decreased effectiveness of Gremlins it is not because Burt and Frank are +1, but because the other factions are slowly but consistently filling their gaps, while Gremlins are not - and this is a more serious issue than a simple +1. Ressers used to be slow, resilient, hard to kill faction with lots of summoning: now they have fast movement with Kentauroi and ridiculous shooting with Reva. Guild was the aggressive faction with lots of shooting and brutal damage, now they can spam 3SS Guild Guards and out-activate everyone else. You see where I am leading. Gremlins are still the high-risk/high-reward faction with high damage potential and high mobility but terrible stats on average and prone to swift deaths (and self-hurt). Add that GG18 seems to favor more elite/tanky enforcer/henchmen models, and this obviously leads to the faction being less competitive. Perhaps claiming Gremlins are still competitive because the Moon Shinobi or the Bayou Bushwhackers got 1SS cheaper is reading reality in the wrong way

I value your 2 cents, but you need to be objective

p.s. mind you Gremlins are not the only ones with this problem - Neverborn thankfully still lack a decent healer and tend to be squishy. I'm just talking about Gremlins here because they seem to have the short end of the stick in this situation. We can talk about Neverborn when Doppelganger, Graves and Primordial Magic go +1

p.p.s. whatever is the matter with riders? Sure they were not overly popular but -2?? Wow.

[trikk]

5 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

My main gripe with Burt/Trapper/Johan/Tavish etc. was that they were too good out of faction (as it seems it was for you too).

For me thats simply not true. They were as good in faction as well as out of faction.

 

5 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

Burt makes sense in Gremlins because he fits in a 7SS bracket appropriate to the faction, of course he is too good for other factions that lack the option for a cheap beater.

Why would Gremlins get a durable fast cheap beater for 7SS? If some factions were willing to pay 8SS for him it means they don`t have a similar model for 8 in their own faction. I don`t see why do you think Gremlins are so special that Tavish and Burt can be wrongly costed and other factions should pay the right cost?

 

5 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

Ressers used to be slow, resilient, hard to kill faction with lots of summoning: now they have fast movement with Kentauroi and ridiculous shooting with Reva. Guild was the aggressive faction with lots of shooting and brutal damage, now they can spam 3SS Guild Guards and out-activate everyone else. You see where I am leading. Gremlins are still the high-risk/high-reward faction with high damage potential and high mobility but terrible stats on average and prone to swift deaths (and self-hurt).

First of all, I`ll say that we can be in a total disagreeement here because its a matter of point of view but I think factions should be mainly about models and theme and seconadarily about mechanics because a lot of new players pick faction based on theme and saying "ohh, you can`t do that here" is kind of discouraging but I think this is just a personal preference. But what is less based on personal preferences is that all factions must have the same chances in strategies. If you look at the Guild Forum, Interference-like strats were a bane to a lot of players because Guild didn`t have an answer to it until Nellie came and gave a fighting chance.

If Guild wanted to outactivate most people they just took Nellie. The Wk4 Guild Guard spam seriously isn`t needed.

 

5 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

Gremlins are still the high-risk/high-reward faction with high damage potential and high mobility but terrible stats on average and prone to swift deaths (and self-hurt). 

I don`t see how Burt is high-risk/high-reward. I don`t see how Tavish is high-risk/high-reward. I don`t see how Swinecursed are high-risk/high-reward. Pere Ravage are high-risk high-reward. All 3 models have: Ml6, average or master-level Wp (5 Tavish, 7 other two), various defenses (4/5/6), decent amount of wounds (8/10/10). Swinecursed have Ml6, Df6. Lightning Bugs have Df5 Ca6. Merris has Df6, Wp5. Those aren`t really "terrible stats". 

Everybody is talking about self-hurt as a disadvantage but when it comes to crewbuilding reckless is all around the place . Also Gloowy Wong kind of mitigates most of it.

5 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

Add that GG18 seems to favor more elite/tanky enforcer/henchmen models, and this obviously leads to the faction being less competitive. Perhaps claiming Gremlins are still competitive because the Moon Shinobi or the Bayou Bushwhackers got 1SS cheaper is reading reality in the wrong way

I agree that GG18 hurt them. But I think the issue is not that "Gremlins are not competetive" but "the way Gremlins used to be super effective is not competetive". I think Gremlin players kind of have to figure some stuff out. But I played like 3-5 games against Wong and he seems very powerful in GG18.

 

5 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

p.s. mind you Gremlins are not the only ones with this problem - Neverborn thankfully still lack a decent healer and tend to be squishy. I'm just talking about Gremlins here because they seem to have the short end of the stick in this situation. We can talk about Neverborn when Doppelganger, Graves and Primordial Magic go +1

Graves absolutely doesn`t deserve the +1. Primordial probably does but he becomes less and less autopick (I think he is used mostly with Lilith but Cherube isn`t bad, with Pandora, but Polter summoning will slowly make him less popular and Titania because Gorar is bad- Collodi, Lucius, Zoraida, Lynch and Dreamer don`t use him or have comparable totems)

I can agree on Doppelganger, he should probably be 8SS. But nobody said the errata fixed everything. I also don`t see Doppel being 8 means Gremlins are bad.

 

5 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

p.p.s. whatever is the matter with riders? Sure they were not overly popular but -2?? Wow.

Pale is still garbage. Dead is in the middle okish but there are better things. Hooded is very good for 10.

[daniello_s]

I agree with Trikk. Models he mentioned in the post above, Swine Cursed, Merris, Bug or even Burt and Tavish still, should be trimmed to match more appropriate level like represented by i.e. Moon Shinobis, Bushawackers or Wild Boars. And we must definitely get rid of Reckless on anything with Wd higher than 4. Let's have fun.

[trikk]

14 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

I agree with Trikk. Models he mentioned in the post above, Swine Cursed, Merris, Bug or even Burt and Tavish still, should be trimmed to match more appropriate level like represented by i.e. Moon Shinobis, Bushawackers or Wild Boars. And we must definitely get rid of Reckless on anything with Wd higher than 4. Let's have fun.

Yes, we can do that...

 

 

Or we can be serious and try to fix Gremlins to not need undercosted beaters to be "competitive"....

The mentioned models are apparently the ones with "terrible stats". I don`t really care if Bayou Gators and Hog Whisperers have horrible stats because I don`t see them play. I have no issues with giving various buffs to Gremlins which I stated multiple times. But if Gremlin players can`t admit Burt for 7 or Gloowy Tavish is too good then I don`t think that will be possible.

 

In a game of AP and mobility having a lot of models with the 150% of normal models will be powerful. It gives advantage in scheming, mobility, damage output and with the way charges work in M2E the - striking first due to charges from behind buildings and longer threat ranges. 

[daniello_s]

Burt should be for 8 from the start - I have no doubt about it. Glowy stuff is powerful without doubt. Broken? Don't think so but powerful indeed. Worried about Glowy McTavish? I'll give you similar answer i got once when asked about how to deal with blasting Sonia - stay out of his LOS  

As mentioned - you don't care about Gators, Whisperers because they are not really good. Well, let's try to care about them and then you won't have to suffer Gremlin players using narrow number of models which actually work in competitive environment because I presume this is what you care about, not a fun play.

[oistene]

Sorry if this was already mentioned - is there a list of previous errata? I want to have an updated version of all my cards, without buying ALL my cards over again (as that would cost a small fortune).

[trikk]

9 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Burt should be for 8 from the start - I have no doubt about it. Glowy stuff is powerful without doubt. Broken? Don't think so but powerful indeed. Worried about Glowy McTavish? I'll give you similar answer i got once when asked about how to deal with blasting Sonia - stay out of his LOS  

As mentioned - you don't care about Gators, Whisperers because they are not really good. Well, let's try to care about them and then you won't have to suffer Gremlin players using narrow number of models which actually work in competitive environment because I presume this is what you care about, not a fun play.

How to deal with blasting Sonnia: take Merris or engage her.

The issue with Tavish is that he is also very good in melee  as well as shooting and has a built in mobility 0 that auto-goes off. Staying out of LoS is for me the same advice as "spread out" against Sonnia. Oh yes, I can totally have each model >8" away from her ;).

Magical stuff is ok. Gloowy isn`t when you have it on 3 models that can have free reckless.

 

I don`t care about Gators and Whisperers when we talk about "terrible stats". If you can create a crew with mostly Df 6 I don`t think terrible stats can be a legitimate excuse. 

Like I said, I do think Gremlins deserve buffs on various models. I don`t know all of them and I bet Gremlin players know how to fix them without giving everything Reckless. 

[Zebo]

FAQ AND ERRATA https://www.wyrd-games.net/malifaux-faq-errata

 

I understand the Gremlin complaints about nerfs, while the Trapper's one have hitted hard in mi list building (I almost always play full Freikorps, what means one Librarian, two Trappers and one Specialist the most usual, with one 10ss Freikorps and some cheaper model. 

 

Now, I can forget about my Trapper's painted metal mini, since I doubt I'll put again two together having also Hans for the same price. 

[spafe]

Can I ask about the bundles... are they for the actual cards or for downloads? When I click on an individual card it comes up saying premium us poker card, but the bundles just say bundle...

Thanks for any help

[Icemyn]

36 minutes ago, spafe said:

Can I ask about the bundles... are they for the actual cards or for downloads? When I click on an individual card it comes up saying premium us poker card, but the bundles just say bundle...

Thanks for any help

They are the actual cards. 
After checkout they send you a receipt with every card broken out and listed as premium poker card.